Occult erosion

If you use a mage focused build i can't believe you dont have 3 sparklings...those charging him with the seal basically kill him.

If you have Seal Mage and 3 sparkling with seals = mage propably already casted half of his spells from entire game - especialy against Wolfens

we are talking about Ram as it seems he has problems with occult erosion but he is ok with middle way.

Middle way has a loop hole, I still have my mage at a large distance from the caster, and so I only need to evade for 2 turns or if hes baited I can take him out if he comes too close. Ofc evading wolfs for 2 turns is VERY hard but avoiding occult erosion on a pala with concience, or like it happened to me 15min ago a priest with inversion and concience with another black pala with occult erosion IS IMPOSSIBLE.

I shouldve taken a screenshot of my last game vs black pala to show you, you say dont expose my mage well how about keeping him behind 2 walls over 10 hexagons away? nope that wont do, he'll just def stance+rush+occult erosion with concience.

have you ever won games where you did no dmg with any other characters except the necro? ofc not, because necro is a dmg/support. Mage is full dmg and there arent going to be many other dmg dealers in your setup if your going to have the proper meastshield to protect him.

And I dont understand your argument, you're defending this spell but you keep saying its worse on necros. Guess what its unworkable for mages, so what should be considered here is a way to tone down this spell for every casters sake.

I use mage I have too, no other class can consistantly bring down wolves quickly enough. But keeping this spell the way it is basically saying: "humans vs undead can choose to go mages, but if a certain unit is on the field then the human mage is nearly pointless. When you end the game at turn 7 with a will of 2 and 3 incantations failed in a row because at turn 2-3 he got 1 debuff on you you'll think differently.

Middle way has a loop hole, I still have my mage at a large distance from the caster, and so I only need to evade for 2 turns or if hes baited I can take him out if he comes too close. Ofc evading wolfs for 2 turns is VERY hard but avoiding occult erosion on a pala with concience, or like it happened to me 15min ago a priest with inversion and concience with another black pala with occult erosion IS IMPOSSIBLE.

ok so you got "owned" by a company specifically made to kill mages. If what you report is true they had about 200 AP made only to kill mages...and it surprises you they are effective? well thanks god they are! i spent half of my AP for it i expect at the very least to kill a mage for that price! That company you decribed will have uber problems against any non-mage comp as they have already a "deadweight" with the priest and i will be surprised to see it around a lot unless mages are everywhere as it basically sucks vs other comps. Imagine to find 2 rune guardians with middle way...that is basically the ram version of it, with the difference that they are much worse. Remember that a ram player will most likely lose the initiative roll vs the wolven and the rune guardians will simply refresh the buff.

I shouldve taken a screenshot of my last game vs black pala to show you, you say dont expose my mage well how about keeping him behind 2 walls over 10 hexagons away? nope that wont do, he'll just def stance+rush+occult erosion with concience.

First: black paladins don't have coscience. If you meant the priest of saluel...and used defensive stance (which is worthless with his stats btw) you can probably rush him and rape him next turn even with the defensive on. I'm still fairly sure your mage can cast spells with a decent success chance. If he had WIL 2 at the end of the match he casted at least 6 spells with occult on. I killed lot of lion mages after they casted only 2 spells - on the same turn.

have you ever won games where you did no dmg with any other characters except the necro? ofc not, because necro is a dmg/support. Mage is full dmg and there arent going to be many other dmg dealers in your setup if your going to have the proper meastshield to protect him.

Yes i did. I used to play a 3 necro team which i then abandoned because it was quite boring to play but i had my share of victories. You basically turtle with few basic units to block the path and then let the necros deathwave, killing 2 units per turn (2xnecro with deathwave). To defend vs archers i had another necro healer...that poor sod would get devastated by an occult erosion as healing would cause injuries instead and the same can be said to the nuker necros that would get lower chances to cast deathwave (which has a higher difficulty). There is a reason why they put mastery of the arcana if you went for recovery then you gotta take these risks. Best way to open this turtle as a ram? Occult erosion with range 8...because less would mean exposing the pala and see it death next turn.

ok you make a fair point, so if a company has an anti mage setup, it should be very hard for the mage player.

Why is it possible to fight against wolfen anti mage setups then and not undead? Its a imbalanced from that point of view.

I've had some of the best wolfen ranked players create specific setups to combat my mage, I can still play against them.

Also if black palas dont have concience then my big mistake but im like 99% sure I have been casted that through was and read concience on him, but i could be wrong so i apologize.

[Legulysse]

In the name of the Black Paladins secret community, I can confirm that we can't learn Conscience.

ok you make a fair point, so if a company has an anti mage setup, it should be very hard for the mage player.

Why is it possible to fight against wolfen anti mage setups then and not undead? Its a imbalanced from that point of view.

I've had some of the best wolfen ranked players create specific setups to combat my mage, I can still play against them.

I think you were quite unlucky by meeting a player with a paladin+priest with occult erosion. About making a comparison with the wolven, usually high ranked players dont want to have such a high AP investment...but i assure you that facing 2 wolven lonewolves lvl 5 with focus+internal rage can kill your mage much much faster than an occult erosion (all in 1 turn, with range 6 and the possibility to move by 5, so effectively, 11 from where they stand) and are more viable than a priest+pala in my opinion (well they cost also more AP) as they can use internal rage on ALL units - for example it does more damage than the primal attack of water on the knight of the lion as it has more WIL

EDIT: wait a second if you play as a lion you have access to the +10 WIL stance with a reroll....:O

[Jigoku]

EDIT: wait a second if you play as a lion you have access to the +10 WIL stance with a reroll....:O

Well, it only lasts until the end of the activation so you couldn't take advantage of it with Internal Rage, if it is what you meant.

And it does not increase the damage output of the Lion casters either (and if all went well, it is stated in the Order description ).

And it does not increase the damage output of the Lion casters either (and if all went well, it is stated in the Order description ).

This would be so awesomly wrong ;D

EDIT: wait a second if you play as a lion you have access to the +10 WIL stance with a reroll....:O

yep - but since wounds modify a Will - its needed to have 100% cast critical Chatisment with 100 rather than 80%

and yes - this help dealing with erosion quite much

as i said erosion would be ok as a mage counter but all those epic ranges of spells longer than 4 looks werid to me... no matter erosion, death wave or wolfen spells/miracles.

For long range shooting there should be archers - not mages or for gods sake - harrasing warrior mages ;P

but back to erosion - once again - making it less hard with -2 range and option to cast on all unit for lowering their will and small (really small) dam would be nice fix


BTW - there should be spells dealing 'fixed' DAM at TOU 0... that don't obliderate archers/mages/assault units while deal resonable damage to line/elite and legendary units. Oryginaly all primals were something like that.
Currently all anti Elite dmg spells works to hard on specialists (archers/mages/assault).

[Jigoku]

We already fixed the "harassing" casters on our side.
We also removed the WIL dependance on Primal Spells, because we felt it was wrong for them to be that useful later on. No TOU 0 though.

Of course, we did many other things, but you will see that in due time

No TOU 0 though.

Some spells (not necessarily primal) dealing raw 6 dam (like feriocious) would be nice

We already fixed the "harassing" casters on our side.

any detalis ?