Hate it that I can't redistribute my ability points

I cannot imagine how this gives you a feeling of accomplishment. All you did was trade some arbitrary number of hours for advancement. It didn't take any skill; you could have just as easily played some absurdly high number of training missions for the same result.

It does not give me a feeling a accomplishment, this is normal on F2P model games, you need to make a some sort of comprimises for people to actually spend money in your product, the best way most game developers have come with is "farming", farming takes time and the most time spent in the game the stronger you become, if some other players don't want or don't like to farm then they have to spend real cash to get the same things the other people that spent hours in the game have. The only F2P games that are not like that are the ones that have massive amounts of players and sadly , this game is not one of those.

It would make sense in a purely PVE context, where there were challenges to overcome and ultimate victory was not assured. In PVP, XP is senseless - a barrier to fun, as this thread has noted.

On PvP games the need to force farming is even stronger, look at Blizzard's Heartstone for example, if you want to be able to buy new cards you have to farm the hell and back to do that, if you don't want to spend time farming then just buy boosters with real cash, it's honestly very simple. Most people are very competitive and they hate to lose, if they haven't been around enough time on the game to farm their way up the ranking then they have to use real money if they want to compete with the best.

It makes me leave. I hate grinding. I hate farming. I'd rather paint, or read, or run, or do something to improve myself rather than repeating the same mindless repetitive task to fill a progress bar. I am not a monkey. I am not amused by such trivialities.

If you hate farming and grinding and are a new player that want to be on top 10 ranked players next week then use your real cash to buy your stuff, I'm very sure the devs will appreciate it.

PVP is what this game is all about, because that's all there is to it at present.

You are right about this but still with stronger PvP style the game has, the more you need to differentiate players in order of "time investment" if you want your older player to feel like they actualy invested something to be where they are and not wasted their time. From a developer stand point you want this new competitive players to spend real money to get where the people with more time invested are much faster by spending cash.

But your point is well taken. I just draw the opposite conclusion. There are two closely related parts to this game:

1. Build your company, making decisions about what units and abilities to include
2. Use your company to beat other companies, making decisions about when to move units, where, etc

Part 1 is not fun right now. It is work. Mindless, boring ducat-grinding so I can build the company I want.

Why do you find it boring? as it is right now you only have two ways to make money, 1. missions and 2. playing other players. The missions are done automatically, you can't considere that to be farming at all. The playing other players part is all this game is about, how can it be boring?

"You should spend more time doing boring mindless tasks to play the game."

What boring mindless tasks does this game has? you only send units on missions and play other players, farming training mode is none sence due to the low return you get from it, so at the moment i higly doubt many people farm training mode.

You'll see them regardless. The only way to prevent cloned (optimized) companies is for the gameplay to be robust and diverse.

You are right i will see them regardless, but at least make new players spend some time to be on the same level as the people that have been playing this game for months. This game is actually very easy to learn how to play, so it won't take much time to have similar skills at the game as the most experience players have but at least invest some time to take their post on the top 10 ranking. As of right now the ranking works alot in favor of those that play more not those who play better.

When did we get Stockholm syndrome with our video games? Why does playing a game have to include work first? I'm pretty sure I play a game to have fun, not to do more work after the old nine-to-five.

Since the moment online computer games became F2P. There are people spending countless hours of coding making this game for you to play and they also pay for other things like the server cost, royalties to the people that own the rights for Confrontation, they also have to pay for the engine they are using and their office and many more things. They HAVE to make a proffit some how.

If you really want this game to be succesful then you will want the people behind it to make a profit and further invest on the game or this game will die like i have seen many other good games die and honestly i don't want that to happen.

If you hate farming and grinding and are a new player that want to be on top 10 ranked players next week then use your real cash to buy your stuff, I'm very sure the devs will appreciate it.

I would love to!

But then a patch will come. Or, because I'm a new player, I will make a mistake. I will learn. And then I will want to rebuild my list.

Which is going to cost me. Again.

If I want to de-level a unit to make it cheaper, or "redistribute my ability points"? Costs. If I want to replace one unit with another? Costs. And worst of all - if my roster is already full? I have to delete a unit I spent real money on.

What the hell? My money didn't suddenly disappear. Why does my unit have to?

Like most F2P, the game is built around a long, painful grind to encourage players to spend money. Fine. Let me spend money and skip the grind. All of it. Forever. Don't keep dinging me for another few dollars every time a patch comes out, or every time I make a mistake, or every time I want to try something different.

You are right about this but still with stronger PvP style the game has, the more you need to differentiate players in order of "time investment" if you want your older player to feel like they actualy invested something to be where they are and not wasted their time.

Consider a different approach: give all paying customers instant access to everything. All units start at max level, too. The only constraint is AP. Now we can all build whatever lists we want, immediately, and have all the fun we want bashing each other's faces, trying different compositions, and striving to top the leaderboards.

If your game is good, that will stay fun for a good long time. You might even extend the fun by adding additional factions and game modes or running tournaments with additional constraints.

Once it stops being fun, I'm going to leave. I'm under no delusions of "investment"; I gain nothing by playing this game, aside from enjoyment. Neither does anyone else (save the developers, who get money).

As things stand today, I have to grind (not-fun) before I can have the company I want (fun); the game starts out being not-fun. Which means I'm going to not-play.

Other considerations are largely irrelevant. But if you need to give me special perks or toys - if you need to give me some external advantages or rewards simply because I've been playing longer - in order to maintain my interest, it suggests to me that your game is not very fun. If it was fun, I would not need the additional incentive.

Why do you find it boring? as it is right now you only have two ways to make money, 1. missions and 2. playing other players. The missions are done automatically, you can't considere that to be farming at all. The playing other players part is all this game is about, how can it be boring?

There are several reasons why, but only one matters so we'll ignore the rest.

Let's say I design a 400 AP composition. It's a well-researched, well-built 400 AP comp with tons of synergy and I'm eager to play it. I imagine it will stomp faces. Yes, it'll be awesome. I'll shred everyone. Yllia will be pleased.

There's just one problem: I need to hire two Fangs and level my Grave Guardian up to Lv 4 to get there.

Until I get the cash and time for that, every mission I undertake is work. I'm forced to play at a disadvantage using some 334 AP comp until I get there. And that's not fun, because that's not what I designed and not what I want to play.

Furthermore, it's not like earning a Lv 4 Grave Guardian is something for me to be particularly proud of. It does not require demonstrating any skill or overcoming any challenge. Anyone can get a Lv 4 Grave Guardian if they spend enough time at it.

So my ideal composition is out there, waiting for me. Attaining it is no test of skill. It's just 30 hours off. 30 hours of grind.

In the meantime, I get to lose, repeatedly, perhaps even to people with the very composition I am trying to attain. I might lose not because they are better, but simply because they have invested more hours.

That's lame.

Since the moment online computer games became F2P. There are people spending their time making this game for you and pay for the server cost, they have to make a proffit some how.

If F2P consistently delivers such an awful gaming experience, I daresay it's a poor model.

You want money? Fine. Go to a traditional payment model.

I will give you money for content - for things I cannot make myself. Charge me $20 to play your game. Sure, I'll do that.

I will NOT give you money for content I have already bought (e.g. reassigning ability points).

I will NOT give you money for the "privilege" of skipping a 30-hour grind. I have better things to do with my time.

If you really want this game to be succesful then you will want the people behind it to make a profit and further invest on the game or this game will die like i have seen many other good games die and honestly i don't want that to happen.

I want this game to be successful. (I rather enjoy it, or I would not waste my time posting on these boards.) The game will most definitely die if Cyanide makes no money from it.

Well, there you have it. They aren't getting any money from me (or the people who think like me) if the game's payment model remains unchanged. I'd be happy to pay for content, but never to run the Indefinite Microtransaction Treadmill.

Well, there you have it. They aren't getting any money from me (or the people who think like me) if the game's payment model remains unchanged. I'd be happy to pay for content, but never to run the Indefinite Microtransaction Treadmill.

You sound like you have never play other F2P games on the internet before. There is a reason for this kind of model, mainly cuz of low amount of resources at the beginning of the project. If you want to make the kind of game that will let you charge 20-30 US$ one time to play for ever, you need to have a lot of investors to start developing the game and pay your workers and the studio and the other costs from that starting money till you get a very polished (or almost polished) game on the market and cash on it. The small developers usually can't get that kind of back up from the start, so they need to do things in steps if it fail, you just close shop and go to the next project, if it works then you keep investing on the game to add more content from the money you are cashing from it. Of course nothing is so simple as i make it sounds but is usually something along those lines.
That is just how the F2P model is and it works wonders but for that you need balance, not all the players in your game will give you money but free players make for a healthy player base that paying players can enjoy. No one will pay to play an empty game specially a PvP one. As a developer you need to keep both kind of players happy.

My idea of a "fun" game is more or less the one Serdak described.

This game especially holds great potentialities, however it has to be aware that since it is in the F2P format and based only on the PvP, to survive it has the very difficult task to avoid making the new and especially old players angry for something trivial like the possibility to reset the abilities. The devs can look to the lobby chat to see how much the impossibility to reset the unit abilities in any way is making many people angry and reducing the player base.

In fact, while lvling units up may be interesting when you're a new player, after a month of farming & losing you finally have the company of your dreams, then you play with it but for how much? Let's say at max 20-30 matches then you probably will be bored by it and want to try some variations... and you have to start again farming and losing matches not because you are a bad player, but simply because your company is terrible till you've finally lvled up your units again and again! Many closed beta players stopped playing also because of this: you want the possibility to change your playstyle without having to farm it everytime from square one, otherwise this game will fast become boring for the majority of players that will more leave it than restarting to lvl up their units for the forth/fifth time (and don't hope they'll pay money to buy lvled up units, since they'll perfectly know that that would be a complete waste of money, since they will know that they will probably use their new company for a dozen of games before wanting to try something else -> more money -> no thanks and quit the game!)

The problem of "copy/paste" companies is not a lvling problem, but more a balancing one and moreover in all the weeks I played the beta I've hardly see the exact same composition (not considering some OP cases that were afterwards nerfed by the developers) and this is a good sign of the balance of the game.

In general, I have played to maybe too many F2P games and personally I've never spent real money in a game just to accelerate my progress (I'm usually a good farmer ), while I spent some money to buy additional contents (e.g. special maps or characters, but nothing giving a direct advantage on the game itself) that in this game case may be company or units' slots (especially if new races will be created) or a fixed tool to reset my units' lvls and reassign their abilities everytime I want or additional races (the first 3 may be free, but not necessary all the new ones (many F2P models are like this), the important thing is that they should not be both OP and not free at the same time). I surely will not start paying real money in this game till I'll feel that the re-set abilities issue is solved in a way or another and like me many other players.

My idea of a "fun" game is more or less the one Serdak described.

This game especially holds great potentialities, however it has to be aware that since it is in the F2P format and based only on the PvP, to survive it has the very difficult task to avoid making the new and especially old players angry for something trivial like the possibility to reset the abilities. The devs can look to the lobby chat to see how much the impossibility to reset the unit abilities in any way is making many people angry and reducing the player base.

...

In general, I have played to maybe too many F2P games and personally I've never spent real money in a game just to accelerate my progress (I'm usually a good farmer ), while I spent some money to buy additional contents (e.g. special maps or characters, but nothing giving a direct advantage on the game itself) that in this game case may be company or units' slots (especially if new races will be created) or a fixed tool to reset my units' lvls and reassign their abilities everytime I want or additional races (the first 3 may be free, but not necessary all the new ones (many F2P models are like this), the important thing is that they should not be both OP and not free at the same time). I surely will not start paying real money in this game till I'll feel that the re-set abilities issue is solved in a way or another and like me many other players.

Of course man, I'm really not here to tell people that farming is great and is the way to enjoy a game, is just how things are currently in most games out there and seriously when you get use to it, you don't feel it is an annoyance unless the farming curve is extremely high like some games, but this game is not like that.
The problem about the changes of the game, hopefully won't happen anymore, but we are in Beta , so anything is possible at this point.

What about a different option? Buying leveled units for ducats too, don't make the price extremly high but don't make it impossible to buy either, like i said before, 8k ducats a day is a good day of missions, and wins on this game, a bad day is about 2-3k ducats depending how many matches you play. Maybe a level 3 skeleton warrior could cost let say 1.800-2.000 ducats, a level 5 PoB make it 11.000-12.000 ducats. There is no farming in this game aside from exp for units, Ducats gain can't be considered farming because you either make it from matches or from automatic missions.

Honestly that sounds great to me and will keep the free players (like me) happy.

But again, is up to the devs to plan this things, maybe test them for a while first and see how things go.

What about a different option? Buying leveled units for ducats too, don't make the price extremly high but don't make it impossible to buy either, like i said before, 8k ducats a day is a good day of missions, and wins on this game, a bad day is about 2-3k ducats depending how many matches you play. Maybe a level 3 skeleton warrior could cost let say 1.800-2.000 ducats, a level 5 PoB make it 11.000-12.000 ducats. There is no farming in this game aside from exp for units, Ducats gain can't be considered farming because you either make it from matches or from automatic missions.

If you see my ideas in the previous page I said:

"Moreover, as the healing is, you can simply have that the "ability reset" cost would be different depending on the unit you want to reset its abilities, so that if you want to reset your schel lvl3 it will cost 1k ducats (so in that case it would be better to buy a new one), while if you want to reset your Golem lvl 5 it will cost 10-15k ducats! At least in this way you don't have to "waste" all your time and/or money you invested to lvl up a unit."

This is more or less the same as yours, only difference is that you don't get an additional unit AND you have to lvl up a unit first before you can re-set its abilities (so if they'll introduce new races you can't immediately get all lvl5 units with the ducats you saved in other games).

If you see my ideas in the previous page I said:

"Moreover, as the healing is, you can simply have that the "ability reset" cost would be different depending on the unit you want to reset its abilities, so that if you want to reset your schel lvl3 it will cost 1k ducats (so in that case it would be better to buy a new one), while if you want to reset your Golem lvl 5 it will cost 10-15k ducats! At least in this way you don't have to "waste" all your time and/or money you invested to lvl up a unit."

This is more or less the same as yours, only difference is that you don't get an additional unit AND you have to lvl up a unit first before you can re-set its abilities (so if they'll introduce new races you can't immediately get all lvl5 units with the ducats you saved in other games).

True, i wanted also to kinda force players to have to either delete their old units or buy additional unit slot for the company, so also the cosmetic items are lost and have to be bought again. This just to balance the part that you are now offering a feature for Ducats that was only Cyans before.

Both ideas will work i guess if the devs think of how to balance the way things will become and not lose the already little importance Cyans have in the game as it is already.

As far as i can see, the only real reason anyone is against the reset feature is they already have the meta deck and dont want anyone else to get a level playing field.

From a F2P or even P2W point, this makes no sense.

Giving someone an advantage because they spent money on in-game items is to be expected to some extent.

Giving someone an advantage because they studied the patch notes or waited for the new metadeck to be posted on some fan site rather than just playing the game...i dont get at all.

As far as i can see, the only real reason anyone is against the reset feature is they already have the meta deck and dont want anyone else to get a level playing field.

I am against this feature and I'm far from having any meta game "deck" done, I don't even have any legendary even though I have the Ducats to buy one, I rather use that money to buy new units after I delete old ones to try new things. So far in this game I have spent probably 60k Ducats on testing units and you can be sure I will spend more.
There are goals I set myself to achieve in the game and that keeps it entertaining (for me at least), never running out of things to try out next, If something I learn over the years of playing online games is to set your daily or weekly goals in parts of the game other than the ranking system.

From a F2P or even P2W point, this makes no sense.

You can look around free to play games all over the web and look for the history of this "Reset skill system" most of the games that have it now took years to implement it, devs have to think very hard before implementing an item that would let players try every build possible with the charcaters or units after 2 or 3 weeks of playing it. Most of those people that tried every single combination will feel like the game has nothing more to offer to them and possibly leave.

Giving someone an advantage because they spent money on in-game items is to be expected to some extent.

Pretty much. The thing is, you have to think very hard where or how you are going to give them the advantage or you risk to be labeled as a P2W game and the number of bad Reviews you will have on Steam will shrink the player base your game has.

Giving someone an advantage because they studied the patch notes or waited for the new metadeck to be posted on some fan site rather than just playing the game...i dont get at all.

I don't understand this point, I don't believe the game developers are giving or want to give any advantage to the players that studied the patch notes or waited for the new meta to buy companies.

That is just how the F2P model is and it works wonders but for that you need balance, not all the players in your game will give you money but free players make for a healthy player base that paying players can enjoy. No one will pay to play an empty game specially a PvP one. As a developer you need to keep both kind of players happy.

Can't say much about the financing of indie video games these days. If that's the case, it doesn't change my point: I'm willing to pay $20 for the content of the game as it stands, provided I never pay again (except for new content). Give me that option.

Hey, why not charge me $15 and promise me free content in the future? Then, as you add content, raise the price tag for everyone else. Your financing is still front-loaded and you might draw in more gamers as you develop and offer a more complete product.

But my complaints, no doubt, fall on deaf ears. I suppose for as long as it works, developers will continue to prey on gamers' psychological foibles to make money. It just won't work on me.