Rebalance by DW

currently each patches addded almost equal number of god and bad changes... most of bad ones are IMO appeared due to noob or newbie voices of OPnes of quite balanced units and uselesnes of fine ones. And making game balanced by using all voices is realy bad way of progress...

additionally all changes in 0.11 and 0.12 was to big...

and when i was asking about different cost of the same skill for different units - i didn't wanted rising cost for some units by 2-3 times but lowering it for units that will not use its full potential.

Below you can find current opinion about units in factions:

Wolf:

- Fang - Lowering their cost was terrible idea... Now i can meet Wolfen mindless parties having more units than Alachan or Ram parties...
Old ap cost of 50 is more than recomended. Also old Bloodlost was quite interresting option.

- Crossbowman - I totally don't follow idea of making him cheap swarm shotter... acompanied with new fang gives Wolfens a ridiculous option to use 9 units on 400 ap format...
Best Crossbowmans was back in the 0.10 with 70+ ap cost and STR of 15/18 - making them Mov 5 back in 0.10 would make them both - strong and efficient to counter with assault units.

- Lonewolf - Fine

- Hunter - Fine

- GotR - almost Fine, Middle Way should be restricted somehow, by lower range, one turn duration or something.

- GG - It was best in 0.11 and should be returned to that Version

- PoB - It was almost Fine in 0.11 and +5-10ap cost or lowering his TOU by 1 would make him Balanced

- Worg - didn't saw any since 0.10


RAM:
- Warrior: -3ap for possessed, -2 for ferocious and it would be great. Option to changing possessed to fierce would be also nice.

- Archer: +3ap base cost, -3 for possesed, -2 for Feriocioous.. maybesomething instead of fierce but it can be usefull after all.

- Necro: better than 0.10 and 0.11. Fine as it is.
Only sugestion would be making Respite of the dead heal/deal 5 HP instead od 10 but for 2 mana and with Freq 3-4. It would make healing less random.

-Gargoyle: Propably fine,
Hard Boiled could be 10ap as for skeletons. Some skills could be changed but its fine as a unit for now.

-Priest:
Old Bad Omen, 2-3 faith for inversion and something instead aura - and it will be ok

- Paladin: -3ap for each fix below
Exhausting touch's - One per game and with limited duration of 5-6 turns.
Erosion down to Range 6

- Skull:
Revert back to 0.11 (cost + skill cost) with cheaper posessed and add additional skill at lev 5

- Golem: -1 TOU
+ blocking the option to have HB+Rapidity+Mobile


LION:
-Sword:
-1-2 ap
Cheaper mighty blow (or something like Mighty Blow but working as feriocious)
something instead Vivacity

-Bowman:
-2-4ap for base unit, MUCH cheaper sherpshotter

- Mage:
Seal of Dellar'n Frequency down to 2
Something more universal instead than Scourge of Impure or Scourge working as a simple +2-3STR buff

- Lion:
Fine on T1, higher levels are to expensive

-Valkyrie:
Fine on T2, fighting tree should be buffed or 2-3times cheaper and have option to gain +2 par at least.

-Sparkling: Same as for Fang there was no reason to buf them with -3ap but they are limited to 3 fortunately.
+3 AP at lev 1 and +5-10 for Healing skill
or
+10-15ap for healing skill.

- Knight
Back to 0.11 (cost + skill cost) with additional skill to choose from at T5... even in 0.11 none played Knight above lev 3

- Chimera - didn't saw any since 0.11... looks overpriced with anything other than pillas of light working on her own.

- Fang - Lowering their cost was terrible idea... Now i can meet Wolfen mindless parties having more units than Alachan or Ram parties...
Old ap cost of 50 is more than recomended. Also old Bloodlost was quite interresting option.

Unecessary AP reduction, i agree but bloodlust had to go. It could reach something like DAM 14 with mightly blow and bloodlust. Also it is good to have ferocious as an option as wolven sucked especially vs flesh golem. Redesign also assault strike, that skill AP is too much and the malus are in the end quite heavy. I would simply add a -3 ACC malus. Reality is that even if fangs are heavily played by wolven nobody takes that skill (i've still to see it once since i started playing btw).

- Crossbowman - I totally don't follow idea of making him cheap swarm shotter... acompanied with new fang gives Wolfens a ridiculous option to use 9 units on 400 ap format...
Best Crossbowmans was back in the 0.10 with 70+ ap cost and STR of 15/18 - making them Mov 5 back in 0.10 would make them both - strong and efficient to counter with assault units.

I agree i would like to see them heavily costed but with a higher DAM.

- Lonewolf - Fine

agree, coscience is a bit overkill for a warrior-mage but whatever.

- Hunter - Fine

Assault strike has to be redesigned especially here to make it viable. Sneak attack is usually the best choice followed by prudent movement. Giving to a already low TOU unit a -3 PAR is crazy.

- GotR - almost Fine, Middle Way should be restricted somehow, by lower range, one turn duration or something.

middle way should be slightly nerfed as it can lockdown especially undead mages as ram usually starts second. I would be happy if its use would be once per game, making it a more tactical thing than a spam button. If it is once per game 2 turn durations and 8 hexagons is fine. If the wolven doesnt manage to kill your mages/faithfuls when they are locked for 2 turns then they dont deserve another chance imo.

- GG - It was best in 0.11 and should be returned to that Version

I play it a lot and the basic AP cost is not that bad in my opinion. 99 AP was maybe too cheap. I dont like how much the abilities cost...i mean 32 AP for survival instinct? such a skill is remotely useful and for that price...

- PoB - It was almost Fine in 0.11 and +5-10ap cost or lowering his TOU by 1 would make him Balanced

More or less same issue with the GG. I still think it is always a strong unit but maybe it costs too much now.

- Worg - didn't saw any since 0.10

same but to tell you the truth i dont mind seeing less legendaries in the 400 AP bracket as often players will cry that the game is pay to win after. Legendaries belong to 800 AP imo.

RAM:
- Warrior: -3ap for possessed, -2 for ferocious and it would be great. Option to changing possessed to fierce would be also nice.

to me is ok, maybe possessed should be lowered or changed with fierce. Finally hardboiled is priced correctly imo.

- Archer: +3ap base cost, -3 for possesed, -2 for Feriocioous.. maybesomething instead of fierce but it can be usefull after all.

to me they are ok as they are.

- Necro: better than 0.10 and 0.11. Fine as it is.
Only sugestion would be making Respite of the dead heal/deal 5 HP instead od 10 but for 2 mana and with Freq 3-4. It would make healing less random.

Necro is fine as it is. No need to increase frequency or the malus imo. Sparkling makes the necro healer look bad unfortunately.

-Gargoyle: Propably fine,
Hard Boiled could be 10ap as for skeletons. Some skills could be changed but its fine as a unit for now.

I think it is fine, maybe change the diving bomb attack requirement.

-Priest:
Old Bad Omen, 2-3 faith for inversion and something instead aura - and it will be ok

i could write a whole post about it. I played 30-40 games after the patch and ive YET to see 1 priest. You know why? because it is a unit who shines at lvl 4-5 and before is a waste of AP. Now...i know it is a very good unit and i could be tempted to buy cyans to buy it levelled...BUT a new player doesn't know it as it never tested it and it sees that the first 3 levels suck and is too scared to spend real money on something it might be terrible.

Bad omen has to go back to the original, no reason to nerf it. I will never be tired to repeat it: aura of the crepuscular princes has to be redesigned, especially for the priest. Base faith area at least for the priest should be increased especially on the low levels.

- Paladin: -3ap for each fix below
Exhausting touch's - One per game and with limited duration of 5-6 turns.
Erosion down to Range 6

My changes:

- exausting touch - once per game (unless incantation is failed) and gets dispelled if the black paladin dies (so it is in line with putrefaction)
-Occult erosion - fine as it is but make it again like putrefaction, with the -WIL malus going away if the black paladin is killed.

- Skull:
Revert back to 0.11 (cost + skill cost) with cheaper posessed and add additional skill at lev 5

Same old elite problem.

- Golem: -1 TOU
+ blocking the option to have HB+Rapidity+Mobile

Choice between rapidity and HB would be interesting. Mobile has to stay as it is a big giant and it shouldn't care about some rubble.


I dont comment on lion since i play only against them

I dont comment on lion since i play only against them

but you still can have a opinion
ESPECIALY when you play against them

ok since you want that... opinion on lion based as a ram/wolf player:

LION:
-Sword::
-1-2 ap
Cheaper mighty blow (or something like Mighty Blow but working as feriocious)
something instead Vivacity

I think they are fine. I'm always surprised, compared to wolf/ram counterparts how these ones can be VERY annoying to deal with in melee. Their high parry rate becomes especially irritating when they surround you, making them very hard to hit. Parry (the talent) looks very good on them. I wouldn't change a thing to be honest. Also the hit rate vs them that is displayed does not reflect the parry talent...

-Bowman:
-2-4ap for base unit, MUCH cheaper sherpshotter

no need to change them beside sharpshooter which is indeed too expensive and nobody will take it over accuracy/elusive. Also i feel they got much much stronger with the new stance...i mean did you try to double shot now? gosh...lion archers have already 4x offensive stances now. Lowering the cost will make them even more abused.

- Mage:
Seal of Dellar'n Frequency down to 2
Something more universal instead than Scourge of Impure or Scourge working as a simple +2-3STR buff

I like scourge as it gives the middle finger to the golem and it is cheap AP when you dont care about dellar'n. Scourge is a very powerful ability and Ylia's wrath is balanced by the fact that you have a drawback.

- Lion:
Fine on T1, higher levels are to expensive

can't judge too well, saw it only a couple of times

-Valkyrie:
Fine on T2, fighting tree should be buffed or 2-3times cheaper and have option to gain +2 par at least.

i would like to see the fighting tree used more (i tried it and it is very valid in my opinion) maybe lowering a little the AP will work. Other than that im ok with the valk.

-Sparkling: Same as for Fang there was no reason to buf them with -3ap but they are limited to 3 fortunately.
+3 AP at lev 1 and +5-10 for Healing skill
or
+10-15ap for healing skill.

agree, no reason to buff them. What bothers me a lot about the sparkling is that they can use the healing + devotion in the same turn. The healing skill is ok but the cost is too little. 2 sparklings > 1 healer necro AP wise, healing wise, movement wise, defence wise, damage wise and utility wise. I guess i said enough.

- Knight
Back to 0.11 (cost + skill cost) with additional skill to choose from at T5... even in 0.11 none played Knight above lev 3

the stats are fine but has the problem of all elites.

- Chimera - didn't saw any since 0.11... looks overpriced with anything other than pillas of light working on her own.

same here, didn't see it once yet with the new patch. I wonder if pillar of light healing the chimera is a bug or intended as it states "allies" like the valk healing...

Divine favor. Since it changed as well i think i should spend few words about it...

in my opinion it is crazily powerful. I really do not understand why it got buffed. +10 PAR/DOD/WIL/ACC is insane, even for 1 activation. Mages can disengage much better with it than with defensive stance....

You propose nice changes here.

Speaking of Wolfen, if you had problems before against the acheron golem I think you used a bad strategy: 2 wolfen archers with harcelement can kill it without too many problems. Also the various Wolfen mages and priests have no problems in killing it: just NEVER engage it and you'll kill it before the end of the match (I played both cases, as Wolfen and as Golem in the 400 AP bracket).

The golem basic cost and stats are nice as they are (all the matches I played were balanced and ended with few hit points for both my units or the enemy ones, moreover if the last unit you have is the golem (very easy in the 400AP format), then either you surrender or you have a draw, because it will be impossible for him to pursue enemy units for its slow MOV), the only units I find are to be modified badly are the PoB (that now is better to have 4 Fang Warriors lvl1 instead of a PoB lvl4) and the Sparklings (they have a too cheap heling ability and their Dodge value is so high that they cannot be taken down by enemy archers, so they hole behind their troops, 3 of them can heal 30 points per turn and they are usually used as bombs by the Lion mages with Seal of Dellarin, especially in the VIP maps). Other units may benefits also by the other changes proposed by Dragon Warrior

if the last unit you have is the golem (very easy in the 400AP format), then either you surrender or you have a draw, because it will be impossible for him to pursue enemy units for its slow MOV)

Im not exacly the 'force draw' type of player ;p

2 wolfen archers with harcelement

but golem is simply to much based about counters
Wolefn needs haracement crossbowmans with feriocious
Acheron needs feriocious on anything of Exhausting
while Lions Needs special anti Golem build of Valkyrie or lev 5 Mage constucted specialy as a elite counter (while currently there are no elites in play - so it can ce called counter-golem build only)

I think they are fine. I'm always surprised, compared to wolf/ram counterparts how these ones can be VERY annoying to deal with in melee.

unless they are scared... and they are scared half of the time - Bravery is is quite weak as a anti Fear skill... reroll would be better.

no need to change them beside sharpshooter which is indeed too expensive and nobody will take it over accuracy/elusive. Also i feel they got much much stronger with the new stance...i mean did you try to double shot now? gosh...lion archers have already 4x offensive stances now. Lowering the cost will make them even more abused.

totally forgot that new stance can give bonus to both shoots... so ok this one half of tree is nice but i'll be stubborn here that Lev 1 archers should be cheaper -Xap even for additional +X cost for t3 lev skills.

like scourge as it gives the middle finger to the golem

as i said above - current scourge is only about countering golem while no other elites/legends are in play ;p
and that makes scourge very rare - so no counter at all

but golem is simply to much based about counters
Wolefn needs haracement crossbowmans with feriocious
Acheron needs feriocious on anything of Exhausting
while Lions Needs special anti Golem build of Valkyrie or lev 5 Mage constucted specialy as a elite counter (while currently there are no elites in play - so it can ce called counter-golem build only)

Also without specific counters, every time I play with it the match ends with it with only few HP left if not dead: archers, mages, priests can all do a lot of damage to it (the Wolfen ones can harass it very well), while also low rank units can surround it and as soon as it's hurt, it won't hit anymore every time while it will be hit 99% of times!

Pretty much all the game I played with it in the 400AP bracket (about a dozen) I've found it very well balanced (won half, lost half and in those that I lost most of the times the enemy didn't even have the Ferocious ability!). With the Golem is mainly a factor of luck: if you win the initiative roll in the decisive turn, that may be also early on in the game, then you'll probably win, but if you lose it, then you'll surely lose!
Remember also that its cost allows you to have only either 2 Gargoyles or 3-4 base units with it, so you'll always start with heavy differences in numbers that allows the enemy to think more strategically on how to surround & kill it.

Lions with the standard compositions of Mages & Sparks can win easily. I lost twice against Lion armies with a couple of mages lvl 2-3, a couple of archers lvl 2 and then either lions, valkyries or standard grunts. The golem is sooooo slow that if you allow it to engage your mage/archer than you're asking to lose!!!

Moreover, it is completely impossible to win against a turtle shell army composition if you don't have many archers and with the Golem you can't bring many with him

[Legulysse]

Hi everyone, thanks for all this feedback !
I can't take the time to answer much, but I wanted to point out something about the "aura of the crepuscular princes".
This spell is actually bugged, and doesn't force new rolls on the buffed units until they move, or until someone next to them moves.
It is fixed internally and will come with the next patch.
Hopefully it may help the usefulness of it, before deciding anything about it.

Hi everyone, thanks for all this feedback !
I can't take the time to answer much, but I wanted to point out something about the "aura of the crepuscular princes".
This spell is actually bugged, and doesn't force new rolls on the buffed units until they move, or until someone next to them moves.
It is fixed internally and will come with the next patch.
Hopefully it may help the usefulness of it, before deciding anything about it.

the same bug is then also applied on honor of the black paladins, no new fear roll is conducted with the new fear value. Pretty sure the uberuseful mask of gandhar has the same issue.

[Legulysse]

You are right, they share the same bug.
Incidentally they will share the same fix