Change is coming...

I feel having a hero will really limit customization, this game is an army based tactical war game and that is the draw to it. Its not supposed to be a turn based moba. Currently you have the choice between a mass army, elite hero type units, or some kind of mix, sure a little more balancing is needed but the concept is absolutely perfect and quite functional as is. It is an army game and that should be where the customization stays rather then just customizing a hero with supplemental minions. There are plenty of moba clones running around and its tough to compete with the main ones as is, but this games online warhammer/heroclix feel really has a unique niche that tabletop gamer's everywhere crave.

I feel larger point armies should be where the competitive play is at, mass war is really where the fun is. The lower points are for new players who are not up to managing that massive of an army yet.

I am leery about the mega mode but it is certainly better then this awful random mode thing currently in place. Death match should be the primary focuses of the game with other modes being for casual play. Its what people who look for a tactical war game expect, and is likely what will keep them playing. The mega mode could work but it sounds like its going to be really hard to create and balance.

The other fixes seem good to me, I have high hopes as I really am in love with this game.

A quick break down for those who don't know.

In 40K you have Fixed base units that you can spend more AP on to alter through skills. The heroes are vastly more powerful than the basic troop but still play as individual units.

In Warmachine your basic troops stats within a faction are all set but a variety on a theme ie. different profiles for the fang warrior. Each hero though vastly alters the game through their profile since they all bring stat altering buffs and abilities. The hero's them selves are not not much more powerful than the basic troop. ie. One hero extends shooting range by 6" another hero increase melee attack and damage by 2.

Thanks for getting back to me though. As I said more curious than a needed since both has their + and -.

The issue I would just like to point out is that as said earlier, it the game ends when the VIP dies then everyone is just going to build assassination armies. This removes any real tactical play and heavily favors certain faction playstyles. Hence if you add in a KotH victory condition on top of that you are just making more work for yourself since victory over a number of turns can never be balanced against an instant win. Warmachine has this problem in that going first on the second turn in certain scenarios is a garantueed win since you will kill the enemy hero.

At the same time you can balance the individual conditions. I mean if you look at the tournament packs for any of the other table top games their scenarios are always capture and hold locations, flags, zones. But rather than a total point value they are usually, First to 3 leading by 2 or 3 turns solo control. Both these options means Deathmatch style play is build into the other victory condition.

As for the Deathmatch style match up they usually go with a "VIP" needs to be inside a certain zone or distance from start or the game is auto loose. What this does is bring balance against the range assassin army. Initially the melee type faction still has the threat but because the enemy VIP has to move to a location and has to come forward they too now get exposed and that increased mobility of melee plays a roll. Ranged army can no longer camp the back of the field and only focus on VIP.

I am personally heavily against more than 2 victory conditions in any map. They should always be 1 focused scoring one and one kill all enemy one. The scoring one should be balanced that it doesn't happen so fast that the armies don't come to blows and it should always be setup that they are forced to. This creates tactical strategy. Do I play for the objective win or am I just going to kill all of my opponents army while I prevent him from scoring. The simplest of these types is as follows

A 3 hex diameter circle in the middle of the map. Score 1 point each turn when yours are the only unit in the circle. 3 points to win. Scoring starts at the end of round 2.

Clear, easy to follow and you can still play to just kill all your enemy.

I feel having a hero will really limit customization, this game is an army based tactical war game and that is the draw to it. Its not supposed to be a turn based moba. Currently you have the choice between a mass army, elite hero type units, or some kind of mix, sure a little more balancing is needed but the concept is absolutely perfect and quite functional as is. It is an army game and that should be where the customization stays rather then just customizing a hero with supplemental minions. There are plenty of moba clones running around and its tough to compete with the main ones as is, but this games online warhammer/heroclix feel really has a unique niche that tabletop gamer's everywhere crave.

If point values will be close to original - game still stay far from moba

http://confront2.cdl76.com/-Morts-Vivan ... eron-.html

first fighters start from 60 while mages starts from 38 while some of elite units cost 60-90 ap.

EDIT: also please please...try to involve as much as possible the community...send some spoilers or ask relevant questions for your development needs. For example i would be happy to see a post done by Jigoku asking: what hero types would you like to see? or things like that

I agree with DB
If its possible active beta players should really help with - more help/comments/support - the more solid will be this huge change first appear to all beta players.

Looking forward to the mid-nor dwarves =D

I'm left wondering though... Where is the progression going to be? I mean leveling your units was progression but then you would get what you wanted and be done progression wise for the rest of the game. I'm guessing we will be leveling heroes now; how are the devs going to keep us busy through and after all of this?

[Dr.Ido]

Its not supposed to be a turn based moba.

We agree. You can be assured that your troops won't be the some sort of creeps, only here to be crushed by the Heroes.

the game ends when the VIP dies then everyone is just going to build assassination armies. This removes any real tactical play and heavily favors certain faction playstyles.

This is a risk but not something that is bound to happen. And this is exactly why we're looking at a game mode combining 2 or more ways to win.

if you add in a KotH victory condition on top of tha

Controling the field will be important, but it won't be like KOTH.

We're still working on the final tweaks on the game mode. I'll give you the rules as soon as I can and you'll be able to comment on it.

If its possible active beta players should really help with - more help/comments/support - the more solid will be this huge change first appear to all beta players.

This is exaxtly why we're telling you all about it and being very transparent about the state of the game. If you're thinking of a selected few playtesting the new mode, that's a bit trickier as it would require some development on our side and obviously we already have our hands full. But I'll post information about our progress and you'll be able to comment, and believe me, we read and take into account everything that you write.

[Dr.Ido]

I'm left wondering though... Where is the progression going to be?

Good question, it wasn't very clear in my initial post (more like, I didn't mention it), but only the first troop profiles will be available at first, you'll need to unlock them by leveling up your guild rank. For each faction, you'll have +/- 6 profles at first and 12 to unlock through the guild ranks 2-20.

And then of course, you'll need to win Ducats to acquire the Heroes of course.

The changes You listed looks really interesting! Good work. I'd like to add, that You could try to make this marveless game more competitive. I think players love tournaments, cups, ladders, ratings,... I mean not just random games, but f.e. posibility of challenging players with higher rating, etc... At the moment when one get into ten, he can refuse playing and he will maintain position (unless other player won't go higher).

And I've another question - what with current cyans and ducats? We will keep them after changes?

Greets.

This is exaxtly why we're telling you all about it and being very transparent about the state of the game. If you're thinking of a selected few playtesting the new mode, that's a bit trickier as it would require some development on our side and obviously we already have our hands full. But I'll post information about our progress and you'll be able to comment, and believe me, we read and take into account everything that you write.

There is much place between this two options

I can understand that making a funcional third party client can be problematic but sending lists of units, heroes, stats, skils and other changes + maybe map screen is more than enouth to find potential problems imo. In case of tabletop games - text and numbers are all you can have even in final project

I'm left wondering though... Where is the progression going to be?

Good question, it wasn't very clear in my initial post (more like, I didn't mention it), but only the first troop profiles will be available at first, you'll need to unlock them by leveling up your guild rank. For each faction, you'll have +/- 6 profles at first and 12 to unlock through the guild ranks 2-20.

And then of course, you'll need to win Ducats to acquire the Heroes of course.

throught the guild ranks 2....20?!

really? I hope you carefully considered this choice because in my opinion all the units supporting the hero should be available relatively fast. I'm ok with the hero being more expensive and harder to obtain but the other units should be the other way around. I also hope the 6 profiles will be viable choices (maybe share with the community all the profiles in order to get some feedbacks?)

[Dr.Ido]

You could try to make this marveless game more competitive

That's on the roadmap, but before making the game more competitve we need to make it more enjoyable / successful.

with current cyans and ducats? We will keep them after changes?

Of course. We'll refund you everything you purchased that is not in the game anymore and you'll keep everything that you already have. All old player should find themselves quite rich when the change comes

sending lists of units, heroes, stats, skils and other changes + maybe map screen

This is very close to what we have in mind. You'll just have to wait a little more but we'll give you details very soon.

I'm ok with the hero being more expensive and harder to obtain but the other units should be the other way around. I also hope the 6 profiles will be viable choices

You'll get 6 viable units for each faction, as you start and you'll have 6 more for each faction by the time you'll reach level 10. Some tweaks might be needed, of course, but we're very confident that this is the right direction.