Swordsmans of Alahan

ok

i just played:

2x Skeleton warrior lev1
2x Skeleton warrior + HB
2x Bowman lev1
2x Necro lev1
2x Gargoyle lev1

against Alahan:
5x Swordsman lev1
4x Archers lev1
3x Sparkling lev1

and poor alahan don't stand a chance... Im not sure if opponent was better or not but he did many reasonable moves and still lost most of units to kill two Acheronians... Necro and one skelly... then when he had only few wounded units - he GG and left...

It shouldn't be so devastating that two skellys (lev 1 + lev2) can block 3 swordsman and one archer... turn after that gargoyle and puppet joined to start a massacre on that wing... on the other one skelly, archer and a puppet killed two sparks and one swordsman making a patch for gargoyle to catch two archers with deffensive stance. Nothing briliant but game was mine even without a luck or enemy mistakes... and was my in term of Huge advantage after 2-3 turns.

if anyone else thinks that Swordsmans are fine then once again i should remind of their low will and not perfect bravery:
http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/331 ... E63D69E38/
its how half of swordsmans looked like in turn 2 and 3...
ACC 5, PAR 8, DOD 5...
DOD 5? its less than everything... a stat of a small house not a shielded unit. Vs such units even undead bowman looks like sniper... and Skeleton have bigger chance to hit/parry than him

Edit
next game - same player, slightly more up to date band on his side.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/331 ... EA9A2C7DB/
http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/331 ... BE7D17E22/

Edit2...
weird... guy is in top10 rank with only 5 games lost... im almost sure that there was noone with 3 lost games in rank in top 10 a hour ago...

I'm pretty surprised that player is using 4 archers lvl1 when you know well that they become strong at lvl2 and uber at lvl3 and also 3 sparks lvl1 without any mage are completely useless. Probably he was just trying a new composition with only lvl1 units to lvl them up but I've some doubts he got to top10 with that composition! (E.g., every legendary unit will massacre all his army soloing it!)

Swordmen are not strong, but if they just reduce of few points their For the Light! ability then they will work as they should: meatshields for the Alahan archers/mages behind to make waste of all the enemy units that approach them. I usually don't even attack with them, just block the choke points to get to my archers.

As I said in another post, I think the problem is not the Alahan Swordman that is overpriced, but the HB Skeleton Warrior that costs too few for its efficacy!

(E.g., every legendary unit will massacre all his army soloing it!)

to be honest i played some games with:

2x Skeleton warrior lev1
2x Skeleton warrior + HB
2x Bowman lev1
2x Necro lev1
2x Gargoyle lev1

that should auto-loost with all legendaries and its not that terrible as it seems...

Vs Golem - he didn't managed to kill all my units in time - so in turn 13 when he was at 20 hp and i had only necro - i moved away one and got draw.

Vs Worg - no special counters are needed. Stepped back, kill the rest and encircled worg with puppets + charged with gargoyles when he was at <30hp.

Vs Chimera - i played only once Vs p122ab... and i was Indeed loosing but this guy is a no-life (no offense) with 100+ games per week so casual ram playing that i used to - was probably full of minor mistakes

Are you seriously comparing the Acheron Army you described with that Lion one? Are you maybe joking?

Try to play with THAT Lion army against a Legendary unit and then try again to say if it's possible to win...

PS: I'm saying win, not draw, since with 3 sparks against a golem is effectively an auto-draw...

I actually feel that the LION army does better against a Golem because LION archers are better and the LION thing, crap I forget its name, their version of Tide of the Dead, helps in hitting the Golem from a distance. Just my experience.

Are you seriously comparing the Acheron Army you described with that Lion one? Are you maybe joking?

Try to play with THAT Lion army against a Legendary unit and then try again to say if it's possible to win...

PS: I'm saying win, not draw, since with 3 sparks against a golem is effectively an auto-draw...

In case of golem my army is also draw only so i don't see the difference
and against Worg/Chimera in theory they should be similar...

but you totally twisted my point - i simply wanted to say that this lion build is hopeless against ram swarm that is not exacly harder to play... but far far stronger and more resilient.

but you totally twisted my point - i simply wanted to say that this lion build is hopeless against ram swarm that is not exacly harder to play... but far far stronger and more resilient.

You're right, I lost the main point of the discussion. I agree with your last statement anyway!

one more thing

As I said in another post, I think the problem is not the Alahan Swordman that is overpriced, but the HB Skeleton Warrior that costs too few for its efficacy!

Personally i belive that cost of HB alone (as a skill for cheap unit) on skeletons is ok - the problem is that even base skeleton without it is mostly better than Swordsman (and also Valkyrie as a fighter). And when saying "mostly" i have no idea in what real game situation swordsman would be better... maybe with finishing off the wounded puppets that indeed have problems with hitting him in 1v1 fights

Once again TOU>>>PAR while STR>ACC mostly because ACC is also used for hitting disengaging units so its maybe not so important like STR but have one additional use.

I'm pretty surprised that player is using 4 archers lvl1 when you know well that they become strong at lvl2 and uber at lvl3 and also 3 sparks lvl1 without any mage are completely useless. Probably he was just trying a new composition with only lvl1 units to lvl them up but I've some doubts he got to top10 with that composition! (E.g., every legendary unit will massacre all his army soloing it!)

This....try 4x lvl 2-3 alahan archers with accuracy. Legandaries are suddenly a no-issue. Add to the mix 5x swordsmen with parry and you have a nice turtle going on. Just had a match today with my "classical" undead comp built around a lvl 4 crane. The map was favoring a LOT the lion player as i could attack him only directly by passing through 2 chock points, obviously quickly blocked by the swordsmen. Now, maybe it was just bad luck but when a swordsman parries an attack from your crane it sucks SO MUCH. Even if it happens once per match it can be a game changer. That little swordman can body block one more turn which is so HUGE.

so all in all, swordsman are fine. The fact that they can add RNG to protect them makes them very annoying to deal with because you often CANNOT be sure of your hits. Fang warriors and skeleton warriors are often very easy to hit and you can plan around it...but swordsmen? NO. This alone makes them VERY good.

I'm sure you will disagree with it but...to me PAR > TOU because it is harder to plan around it and one parry can really screw your plan.

so all in all, swordsman are fine. The fact that they can add RNG to protect them makes them very annoying to deal with because you often CANNOT be sure of your hits. Fang warriors and skeleton warriors are often very easy to hit and you can plan around it...but swordsmen? NO. This alone makes them VERY good.

I'm sure you will disagree with it but...to me PAR > TOU because it is harder to plan around it and one parry can really screw your plan.

Swordsman are fine in same way that a rock can be fine as long it covers your lame 4-5 bowman company alive...
Meta that allows lamest roasters to be on top is terribly wrong... same for lions, ram or wolfens.

Reducing max number of archers to 3 and buffing swordsmans would solve both mine and yours problem of brainless bands...
Defending ONE and only ONE build that proves swordsman to be somehow useful (but far from being self usefull) is so much wrong... show me offensive or tactical company based on swordsmans dealing with skeletons/wolfens/paladins or something like that and i'll agree... but lions winning on the open map are no proof - especialy while only unit limit blocks Alahan lamers from plying 8 archers roasters and praying for open maps...

these days i feel that mine RAM company is one of most tactical... and i really miss sparkling bombing that was perfect for dealing with stand and shoot campers...

and for the PAR<TOU... PAR can be nice on Gargolyes with immune fear but its still random - while ago I lost both gargoyles by one Wolfen brutal force charge with 30% to hit chance... all hits in place - both gargoyles dead... and where is your screwing of plans? or it was the plan? - kil both in one activation
Parry is random and you cant relay on it... but that is most important - Parry can be lowered up hard by encircling and ignored by shooting - while TOU is constant and gives so much stability in your plans.