Rebalance by DW

- Rune guardian middle way should be cast once per game
- Lonewolves are out of control as well as fangs and crossbowmen. Regen is always a must and the basic magical attack hits like a truck (3 lonewolves can oneshot any non-elite unit every turn - with a 100% chance + hide to cover. Rune guardian magical attack is fine as it needs faith + doesn't hit like a truck).

as of today: 75% wolven are on top 20, 25% lion 0% ram. I'm pretty sure there is a problem (and i say that mainly as a wolven player). Top 10 is made by 9 wolven teams and 1 lion. I think the numbers speak by themselves.

Regarding Rune Guardian Middle Way, the problem is not the fact that he can cast it multiple times, more the fact that now the Wolfen has become a Zerg army and so he will have the Faith points to cast it everytime! Before the patch, he needed to have three Other Wolfens in its area of faith to cast it and usually your army was composed by max 4-6 Wolfen in total, so just killing a couple was sufficient to stop the Guardian from casting it!

I noticed too the fact that now the Wolfen are much more broken than before with the previous PoB. I think that the developers should try to use more the first map (the very tiny one) as a test map to check the units AP values (it is not a fun map, but it allows to get an idea of the balance if you go there with the melee or ranged units, for mages and faithful it's less significative). E.g.: try there 1 lvl4 PoB or KotL vs 4 lvl1 Fangs and check if you can win about 50% of the times... I doubt it with the current units... Some discourse for all the other units.

- Rune guardian middle way should be cast once per game
- Lonewolves are out of control as well as fangs and crossbowmen. Regen is always a must and the basic magical attack hits like a truck (3 lonewolves can oneshot any non-elite unit every turn - with a 100% chance + hide to cover. Rune guardian magical attack is fine as it needs faith + doesn't hit like a truck).

as of today: 75% wolven are on top 20, 25% lion 0% ram. I'm pretty sure there is a problem (and i say that mainly as a wolven player). Top 10 is made by 9 wolven teams and 1 lion. I think the numbers speak by themselves.

Regarding Rune Guardian Middle Way, the problem is not the fact that he can cast it multiple times, more the fact that now the Wolfen has become a Zerg army and so he will have the Faith points to cast it everytime! Before the patch, he needed to have three Other Wolfens in its area of faith to cast it and usually your army was composed by max 4-6 Wolfen in total, so just killing a couple was sufficient to stop the Guardian from casting it!

I noticed too the fact that now the Wolfen are much more broken than before with the previous PoB. I think that the developers should try to use more the first map (the very tiny one) as a test map to check the units AP values (it is not a fun map, but it allows to get an idea of the balance if you go there with the melee or ranged units, for mages and faithful it's less significative). E.g.: try there 1 lvl4 PoB or KotL vs 4 lvl1 Fangs and check if you can win about 50% of the times... I doubt it with the current units... Some discourse for all the other units.

yeah that is a good point but i assume that rune guardians are played always with zergs (or else a bunch of elite units make things much more difficult).

Well i think any unit minus the legendaries (assuming they dont have ferocious) gets owned by 4 fangs. Theoretically this is ok because if your PoB/GG is surrounded by 4 you played it wrong. The problem here is that 4 allows you so much flexibility compared to one strong unit that is crazy.

i add one suggestion regarding lonewolves ring of the mist and ring of ice.

Right now these shields can be either super good or super bad (in case the randomness does not help you).

what about keeping their normal duration BUT allowing a 100% damage immunity for the first arrow or spell? after that the shield automatically dissipates (or it does at the normal end of its duration). This would remove some randomness and add more tactical gameplay.

what about keeping their normal duration BUT allowing a 100% damage immunity for the first arrow or spell? after that the shield automatically dissipates (or it does at the normal end of its duration). This would remove some randomness and add more tactical gameplay.

+1

i add one suggestion regarding lonewolves ring of the mist and ring of ice.

Right now these shields can be either super good or super bad (in case the randomness does not help you).

what about keeping their normal duration BUT allowing a 100% damage immunity for the first arrow or spell? after that the shield automatically dissipates (or it does at the normal end of its duration). This would remove some randomness and add more tactical gameplay.

I agree! A bit less RNG is always good in my book.

guys - its only me or in current Lion-Ram balance there is no way to win against hb skellys + gargoyles ?

whole lion army don't have efficient skeleton counter (one skelly have base 60% for hit healthy war lion and 70 for Valkyrie... in 1v1 combat... with 2-3 times 'bigger' units and damage output is bigger for the skelly - same (HB skell) for Valky with martial inspiration for gods sake...)
and when i cant kill skeletons - Gargoyles can two hit half of my units...

in all games when im faced against Skeleton-Garg companies i need terribly bad enemy to have any chance for victory... while for enemy at my level i mostly feel like having half of his forces in term of damage dealt-recived.

as long Ram have Paladins, Priests or some weird composition its mostly ok - but when skeletons and gargoyles are in majority companied with 1 puppet summoner providing big activation advantage - i cant do nothing even with higher discipline becouse always two last moves goes for enemy...

and about Martial build of Valkyrie - she still gets lots of arrows (after warrion-mage fix she cant run after casting martial/regeneration) and needs to be activated first for counteratack leaving other units vulnerable for attacks... and still gets finished by gargoyle/puppet or skeleton warrior that have same damage outopot as 80ap valkyrie...

guys - its only me or in current Lion-Ram balance there is no way to win against hb skellys + gargoyles ?

whole lion army don't have efficient skeleton counter (one skelly have base 60% for hit healthy war lion and 70 for Valkyrie... in 1v1 combat... with 2-3 times 'bigger' units and damage output is bigger for the skelly - same (HB skell) for Valky with martial inspiration for gods sake...)
and when i cant kill skeletons - Gargoyles can two hit half of my units...

in all games when im faced against Skeleton-Garg companies i need terribly bad enemy to have any chance for victory... while for enemy at my level i mostly feel like having half of his forces in term of damage dealt-recived.

as long Ram have Paladins, Priests or some weird composition its mostly ok - but when skeletons and gargoyles are in majority companied with 1 puppet summoner providing big activation advantage - i cant do nothing even with higher discipline becouse always two last moves goes for enemy...

and about Martial build of Valkyrie - she still gets lots of arrows (after warrion-mage fix she cant run after casting martial/regeneration) and needs to be activated first for counteratack leaving other units vulnerable for attacks... and still gets finished by gargoyle/puppet or skeleton warrior that have same damage outopot as 80ap valkyrie...

mage with aoe damage? Knight of the lion? just change your comp everytime you face ram and voilà

Knight? you knew his damage against skeletons with HB?
also one necro can block him with puppets anytime.

and Mage with Chatismen after nerf is unable to defend himself against gargoyles - no Lion unit can kill gargoyle in one activation - so two of them + more activations - gives certan and devastating hit on the main units.

additionaly i consider Mage + archer spam build rather lame

Speaking from experience the scourge of the impure on the mage used on an archer can be effective also on a lion of war. On the lion of war I would pick the talent sneak attack so if you do offensive stance plus sneak attack and use your archer you can do pretty good damage.

Another route would be to use a swordsman with for the light and buff him with scourge and you get pretty good damage output.

I've had success with this..

I think a player (Malice maybe?) proved well two weeks ago that a compo based on Only HB skeletons and Assassin Gargoyles is very strong if the player plays well and unless they face a Golem. For Lions, the main counter is the compo with 3 archers lvl2-3 (in fact, they are the highest DAM/AP unit for the Lions), that can kill a Gargoyle as soon as he approaches them, while the mage build suffer greatly from the high mov of the Gargoyles, but if the mage is "turtled" well, he can nearly kill them with 2 AoE well played (and after they are wounded, their efficiency goes down a lot!). The "trick" is trying to ignore the HB skeletons, blocking their paths (they are tough, but they are always hit) and focus on the Gargoyles first with the ranged units.

PS: @geArz: did they fix Scourge? It was not working correctly last week...