Name the skills you don't like

I think it would be interesting for the devs to hear our feedback about all the skills we don't like / make few sense in the game so that they could improve them or change them.


I will go with my list (note i did not test the chimera and the worg) :

Ram:

- Hard boiled on skeleton warrior: very expensive in terms of AP and bit counterintuitive for a soldier that is supposed to be expendable cannon fodder that has very low TOU . Hard boiled is like increasing his TOU by 2 making it same as a fang warrior. While not completely rubbish i would like something else like fierce - i know it will be like the skeleton archers but it makes sense, doesn't it?.

-Double shot on skeleton archer : ACC 1 makes it a joke compared to the lion one that can have ACC 5 with the racial stance + repeat the roll. I would add something like a bleeding effect (for example a shot with reduced DAM but that deals damage over time maybe 3 damage per tick per 3 turns)

- Gargoyle hard boiled : like the skeleton warrior but much worse. You either make it a natural skill (like in the original game ) or you remove it. I'd take possesed over it in a second so that it keeps its nice DOD/PAR stats. Im also not too big fan of "flurry of blows" because it basically transforms it into a more expensive fang warrior with reduced TOU but honestly i never tested it.

- Aura of crepuscular princes : you improved it and i start to like it more especially with less casters around BUT...the fear value is maybe more appealing at +3. I didn't test it though as i went for inversion. ps: where is unavoidable destiny?


EDIT: Necromancer Death wave: mana cost is too high, it should 4 to make it viable (maybe). Try to compare it with the priest spiritual aggression and there is no match for the "nuker" necro in terms of damage output. For more or less the same cost i can deal more damage with less restricting conditions and potentially every turn.

Lion:

-swordsman mighty blow : another skill that works against the unit. I would add something either like knock down (maybe too powerful) or a strike that halves the MOV. I want them as mini tanks!

- Lion: same as the gargoyle about flurry of blows, i feel the added damage is not that high but again, i didnt test it.

Wolf:

-Lonewolf recovery : well i take it is a place holder

- Assault strike : i would remove the -PAR and maybe put the -ACC to 4 otherwise everytime you use it and then disengage you get hit 2 times (most likely i would say) . I didnt test it too well so i might be wrong but it might a very interesting skill on the wolven hunter / fang

- Mask of gandhar rune priest : in my opinion is better a multi purpose damage spell than a +2 buff on fear for 2 turns considering wolven doesnt have such a high fear in general.

- Predator of blood: i would like more choice at lvl 5, maybe adding the howl as the worg or a mini version of it? unless you want to keep him unique.


that's it from my side, i am curious to hear your opinions

Since I only played in multiplayer with my Lion company, I will limit myself with Lion units:

ARCHER
Double Shot: -8 ACC to both shots? I'd rather shoot only once thanks. Why I would ever raise the AP of a unit to take this skill?

LION OF WAR
Flurry of Blows: -6 damage on both attacks? Same situation as Double Shot, I will attack only once, thanks.

MAGE
Conscience: A skill that costs 32 AP? Seriously? Why not change it so it fits in a lower AP cost?

KNIGHT
Implacable: Useless for him. Should have another option in place of this one.

Scourge - Living Dead: This skill is too restrictive. Like I said in another topic, why not +3 DAM agaisnt Living-Dead, Elementals and Constructs, so it becomes a mirror of the Crane Warrior Scourge: Living.

Righteous: As I also said in another topic, buying Righteous punishes the Knight, making him forever unable to benefit from the Lion path bonus "Lion Strength", since you no longer roll to resist fear. This should be changed to always gaining Lion Strength instead of never gaining it.

Counter-Attack: The only real good thing about Knight, compared to other Elites is his parry, but it's not so good that you can afford taking -2 Parry by using this skill. Not to mention it doesn't benefit from the level 2 skill "Parry" and if you use defensive stance for a better parry the other player simply won't attack the knight activating counter-attack (I went through this in pvp) so the skill is not really worth it. Why not simply removing the parry penalty so the skill can actualy see some use?

VALKYRIE
Counter-Attack: If even the Knight can't afford taking -2 to parry... Poor Valkyrie. The skill is no use like that, you are actually giving an advantage for your opponent by making it easier for him to hit you.

agree on most points but double shot on the lion archer is actually quite strong compared to the undead one. If you use it with the racial stance you have +2 ACC and you can reroll the shots you miss so hitting is quite high chance. In my opinion is fine.

About the valkyrie i think it is intended if you go the War cry route that gives her ambidextrous (no more PAR malus and it answers back at every hit x 2 if i remember correctly) so i'd say it is ok since it can potentially hit DAM 11/12 two times at every attack (with lion's strenght). I think the knight mirrors the crane who has the same skill without ambidextrous same as the grave guardian. I honestly just tested the crane one as with fear parrying is easier even with the malus, can't judge the other two.

Nice thread when have 6 hours before I wake up and go to work ;P

i'll make full list tomorrow.

but now:

Lions:

Mage - Conscience

Archer - Sharpshotter (can it simply add +1-3 Acc and be much much cheaper?) or lets change it to instinctive or something like that.

Righteous - on both Chimera/Knight ... especiali Chimera when she can have hyperian.

War Lion - whole T3

Exalted on Valkyrie - when her miracles have dif 5

Wolfens:

Recovery on lonewolf

Martyr on Grave Guardian

Ram

Hard Boiled on cheap and low TOU units have insane price - while on golem is definetly to cheap


ill really do full list tomorow - its late

i add also that i feel that the talent accuracy for both lion and wolf archers is almost mandatory especially with the "nerf" to DAM you want always to do 10 damage to an enemy. Maybe woven crossbowmen are a bit of an exception as contact shot can still be ok as instinctive firing.

i add also that i feel that the talent accuracy for both lion and wolf archers is almost mandatory especially with the "nerf" to DAM you want always to do 10 damage to an enemy. Maybe woven crossbowmen are a bit of an exception as contact shot can still be ok as instinctive firing.

+5 to that
Accuary is currently mandatory for lion archer. Wolfen can live without it especialy when they can be quite cheap and still usefull at lev 1 while lions must advance up to lev 2 to be somehow usefull now.
but its back to this to be honest: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2276
when lev 1 skeleton archer >>> lion archer
especialy when having feriocious skeleton dont need higher base str - and his stats can be bosted by somatic transfer.

Ok so full list:

LIONS


Swordsman
Vivacity - for a unit with natural DOD 8 +2 makes really small difference.
Mighty Blow is ok as a skill but its price is from Fang that have 2 attacks instead one and with higher base STR.

Archer
Mandatory Accuracy is no choice at all currently because without it Alachan archers are no match even for undead shooters.
Sharpshoter - its skill rater for crossbowman/fusilier... im not even shure how big are cover penalties to be honest but skill cost is definetly to big for a unit with DAM 8/TOU7... simple +1-3 ACC for less ap would be better
Double Shoot - still im not sure if its usefull now.

Mage
Conscience - it have really big potential but whis type mage would 140 points to cast one scourge each two turns...
Celestial Scourge - still less useful than Chatisment

War Lion
Survival Instinct - maybe a non random skill that reduces all final damage higher than 19 to 19 ?
Flurry of Blows - Brutish Charge or sequence instead of it would be nice
Prudent Movement - price is to big
Assasin - I really don't like its current way - but have no idea how to make it interesting (additional first hit damage when attacking unit with full HP?)

Valkyrie
Exalted

Sparkling
I didn't tested both healing and sacrifice yet because using lev 1-2 sparklings for combat - but i thing that they are great now.

Knight
Implacable
Righteous should be his base skill (once again )
T5 needs one more skill to give player a choice.

Chimera
Guardian Angell needs a PAR buf
Conscience - im not shure if this is a good idea on warrior mage
Righteous should be build in (especialy while free spell gives Hyperian)


ACHERON


Skeleton Warrior
both Possessed and Hard Boiled have to high cost for such unit - they are elite skills currently.

skeleton Archer
Possesed and double shoot

Necro
Conscience

Gargoyle
Hard Boiled (not for 14)
Flurry of Blows
Assasin

Priest
Exalted (current difficulties are rather low)

Paladin
Exalted

Crane
One more skill at lev 5

Golem
-


WOLFENS

Fang
maybe additional T3 or even T4 for him
Im not shure if Assault Strike is usefull

Crossbowman
Contact Shot... i knew that it can be usefull but is imo against the conception of blocking archers in mele

Lonewolf
Recovery, Mastery of Arcana

Hunter
Assasin

Guardian of the Runes
Elusive

Grave Guardian
Martyr

Predator of Blood
Taunt
Chosing between Blood Lust and Implacable is quite annoying
One more skill on T5 to chose from

Worg
both Ruthless and Elusive are really small skills as for mighty legendary unit
first should be build in T1 and elusive negates countering Legendaries by blocking (not killing) them

agree on most stuff but not on:

-double shot: i tried it and it is nice on the LION archer (not on the ram one though)
-prudent movement: is actually not that bad i think the AP is more or less ok
- exalted on black paladin and priest : i played these two classes a lot and i can say that it has its purpose. Missing a miracle with the priest like spiritual aggression (90% base success at full hp not engaged) can be very bad, same as the exausting touch. It is also a cheap alternative if you have to fill some AP. If they want to make it useful they will reduce the success rate to a point that it becomes mandatory (and then i will hate the talent).
- Elusive is a powerhouse, don't touch it


i agree also that assassin should be reworked...i hate adding extra randomness to a random game: where is the fun? I would be happy if you would rework that skill (ie: critical strike 100% on the first strike, cooldown 2 turns after the crit...or even cooler crit 100% on the first strike on all units that have already been activated)

Elusive is a powerhouse, don't touch it

on some units - its nice - on others - weird

- exalted on black paladin and priest : i played these two classes a lot and i can say that it has its purpose. Missing a miracle with the priest like spiritual aggression (90% base success at full hp not engaged) can be very bad, same as the exausting touch. It is also a cheap alternative if you have to fill some AP. If they want to make it useful they will reduce the success rate to a point that it becomes mandatory (and then i will hate the talent).

you may be right but in that case i would add 3'rd option to choose

-double shot: i tried it and it is nice on the LION archer (not on the ram one though)

as i said - im not sure of it...
Look - you say that you need exalted on spells with 90% succes rate while you want to lower chances of bow hit from 60-80 to 20-40 - 30/50 with lion stance
Sometimes it can work but other time its better to take 60-80 + offensive stance - its easier and stronger and mostly you don't need to use something like that more than once-twice in the game.

I tried to use double shoot at close range but its harder and weaker that crossbowman asault fire. While it may be quite fun to eliminate puppets faster - but drawback + high ap cost make it not exacly efective.

Since I only played in multiplayer with my Lion company, I will limit myself with Lion units:

ARCHER
Double Shot: -8 ACC to both shots? I'd rather shoot only once thanks. Why I would ever raise the AP of a unit to take this skill?

played only humans sofar and this is also the most annoying nonsense skill.
11acc(55% hitchance)- 8 acc (-40% hitchance) = 15% hitchance for both shots. (i think even lower because you lose accuracy depends on distance)
And dont forget the cover penalties, so what hitchance? 5%? Not a Useful skill at all. If you really luck you hit once in a match in close combat but archer and closecombat? you can guess how long he stay alive against something..