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Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

Let's talk about official announcements.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 6:27 pm

The herasser has a new job >=D
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Hod

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 7:03 pm

Dr.Ido wrote:
Hod wrote:what is keeping the Wolfen from having a big upper hand in gathering Elixirs, since all of their units can run such a long distance?


Wolfen can run and grab the Elixir, but only one Elixir orb pops each turn, so even if you grab all of them you cannot win until turn 7, and a lot can happen in 7 turns. And don't forget that as wolfen units costs slightly more than other units, they tend to have less units on the battlefield and will have troubles dominating the maps.


I understand this but there are other ways they can also get Elixirs before turn 7. It just seems from reading the rules, that the movement speed of the Wolfen gives them quite the advantage in this new game mode. Think of this win scenario that is completely plausible from my previous experience playing against the Wolfen.

1. Wolfen use their superior movement to take Control Zone in Turn 1. (They did this all the time in KoTH before you couldn't get a point in the first turn)
2. Wolfen use their superior movement to take Elixir in Turn 1. (They can cover the map the easiest)
3. Wolfen use their superior movement and two attacks to kill Hero in Turn 1 or 2. (This happened a lot in VIP when the opposing player left the VIP open)
4. By Turn 2 or 3, they need 1 more Elixir to win, which is easily attainable due to their superior movement speed.

I know you guys have testers testing this. I just really hope you have guys playing Wolfen super cut-throat to make sure the above situation doesn't become how the game continually plays out. Because the only way to counter it is to surround your Hero, which means you can't take the Control Zone or collect Elixirs and once again, Wolfen wins.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 9:04 pm

I simply don't want to play Vs aberration prime (or wolfens with its mechanics) again :P

This unit was one of worst things that happened to C3,5 ... a unit running more than 60cm and killing up to 4 key units in pursuit movements was so wrong - especially combined with scenarios ;)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Almanro

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 10:13 pm

It seems very promising, however my first impression without playing the game is that the tutorial must be very detailed in the basic strategies to win against high mov units and maybe it should consist in 3-5 different maps, otherwise I can already see the new players rage leaving after facing bitter defeats against high mobility armies (e.g., the Wolfen hero collects the elixirs around the map and fall back while all the other units dogpile the enemy hero, killing it)
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MhBlis

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 10:37 pm

The speed problem is something I and others pointed out right at the beginning of this process.I also noted that most of the other issues were not address either. Really until we can actually play a few games I cannot comment if they really will exist or not but at first glance I see this as a very flawed game mode.

Major for seen problems:
1. Fast units

2. Random spawn points

3. Board control due to army size


I would also like to once again ask this.

Do summoned units count for domination points? Can they score elixir points?

I really hope they do not since it hurts balance to have expendable, unlimited units, be able to score. Units that score should be units that entail risk.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostThu Jun 12, 2014 11:47 pm

MhBlis wrote:The speed problem is something I and others pointed out right at the beginning of this process.I also noted that most of the other issues were not address either. Really until we can actually play a few games I cannot comment if they really will exist or not but at first glance I see this as a very flawed game mode.

Major for seen problems:
1. Fast units

2. Random spawn points

3. Board control due to army size


I would also like to once again ask this.

Do summoned units count for domination points? Can they score elixir points?

I really hope they do not since it hurts balance to have expendable, unlimited units, be able to score. Units that score should be units that entail risk.


I can imagine the droves of morbid puppets sat on the control area ready to be blown up if anyone moves in on them x.x

I don't know we will have to see, maybe the wolfen will have a big advantage or maybe they won't.
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MhBlis

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostFri Jun 13, 2014 3:38 am

Its not just Wolven. Any army who is faster than their opponent will dominate in this way. Wolven just exemplify it. Speed 5 over speed 4 just won't make it as obvious but if you are always just one short it really adds up in bigger maps over the course of 10 turns.
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Dr.Ido

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostFri Jun 13, 2014 10:24 am

MhBlis wrote:Do summoned units count for domination points? Can they score elixir points?


Summoned units can score elixir point but they don't count for domination points (We're still considering this and it might change before the release).
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Dr.Ido

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostFri Jun 13, 2014 10:40 am

Hod wrote:
Dr.Ido wrote:
Hod wrote:what is keeping the Wolfen from having a big upper hand in gathering Elixirs, since all of their units can run such a long distance?


Even though the Wolfen tends to be faster, as a whole, than other faction, every faction will gave at least one unit with a movement of 7 (able to match the fastest of the Wolfen) and capable of ignoring difficult ground, while Wolfen won't have any 7 mov unit capable with this ability.

But I want to add something slightly more general. Of course, we tested and we balanced the units as well as we could, but there's nothing like real players, taking the game in their hands and just doing their best at finding the most efficient builds and exploiting all the edges they can find.

When the patch will be released, hopefully we'll have spotted and corrected most (if not all) of the bugs, and there won't be any major issue with balancing. BUT the real gameplay/balancing works starts there, we'll be expecting you to provide us with tons of feedback on what's happening in the games and we'll do our best to react quickly. That's what a beta should be about in fact, it's just that for Dogs Of War it turned out that there were many changes to make beside the gameplay.

I'll probably open up a speficif thread for gameplay and balancing feedbacks next week.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Change is coming : Confrontation, our new game mode

PostFri Jun 13, 2014 10:45 am

I'm mostly concerned about all units having the possibility to oneshot. I know you are following as much as possible the original game ( and i like it) but to me still feels so wrong. It is also contradictory in a way as you reduce high RNG skills such as survival instinct and yet you add and even smaller RNG effect. I really hope you will consider to make heroes immune to lucky one shots.
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