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Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

Let's talk about official announcements.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 12:25 pm

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
Sorry "Silienne of Laverne"

i asked about meaning of whole sentence ;)


I meant that Silienne should be balanced against Melmoth and by extension all heroes on AP cost and not on Ducats/Cyans.
Last edited by Astralwyrm on Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 12:32 pm

But its hard to say now - without few games at least if she is or isn't balanced Vs him and especialy Vs other unknown heroes ;)

im really curious about current legendaries - how they will be cut down to be both big, legendary and only 200 ap units ;)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 12:46 pm

It is, which is why i haven't said outright one way or the other. Though it does look like right now that Melmoth went into the candy shop and came out with the entire selection of goodies. Someone definitely likes him atleast, he even has regeneration denial while he himself has regeneration; he is so mean >=(

Maybe it will/could have something to do with enormous, stronger units but more easily targetable. Giving them a weakness like can't counter attack enemies who attack from behind would fit the bill too. They are so massive that turning around to hit back isn't practical compared to a smaller unit.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 1:31 pm

Though it does look like right now that Melmoth went into the candy shop and came out with the entire selection of goodies. Someone definitely likes him atleast, he even has regeneration denial while he himself has regeneration; he is so mean >=(

Im most scared about his discipline 3 stat...

Simply someone in Cyanive likes Acheron very much ;)
In current meta RAM is only faction that provides me with builds that i can bet on my victory :P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 1:43 pm

I see Melmoth as someone who does the work himself. Our other current hero innately improves her whole army so really she should come out second best in a straight up fight. That said she is also a ranged hero so dice, terrain, separation will play a huge roll. Right now on the face of it they are quiet balanced against each other.

Sequence is once again a poor translation. Cleave is the English word you are looking for here.
"Melmoth cleaved into the swordsmen beside his beheaded victim."
"Melmoth sequenced an attack into the swordsmen besides his beheaded victim."

Even with the corrected grammar it still reads wrong.

There is a reason every author, table top game (made in an English speaking country), PC/Console game and Pen and paper role playing game uses the term for an ability that allows the unit to make a secondary strike into adjacent foes. Yes it is a sequence of attacks but in English it has a special name; Cleave.

It is the same as saying children's cartoon when you mean anime. They are both cartoons but anime gives you a clear indication of something specific.

I know it sounds pedantic but this is the same as using the term "Elixir" or "Accuracy" they are in fact poorly translated and it is very off putting to native English speakers and especially non-native speakers to not get something that you expect.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Sequence is once again a poor translation. Cleave is the English word you are looking for here.
"Melmoth cleaved into the swordsmen beside his beheaded victim."
"Melmoth sequenced an attack into the swordsmen besides his beheaded victim."
Even with the corrected grammar it still reads wrong.
+
Yes it is a sequence of attacks but in English it has a special name; Cleave.

Im not an expert but for me (and my dictionary) sequence and cleave is something different

For example two fast slashes fromm different directions can't be called cleave - at least my dictionary suggests that cleave is a name for hitting in the same way more than once... like choping wood ;)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Hod

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 2:55 pm

MhBlis wrote:Sequence is once again a poor translation. Cleave is the English word you are looking for here.
"Melmoth cleaved into the swordsmen beside his beheaded victim."
"Melmoth sequenced an attack into the swordsmen besides his beheaded victim."

Even with the corrected grammar it still reads wrong.

There is a reason every author, table top game (made in an English speaking country), PC/Console game and Pen and paper role playing game uses the term for an ability that allows the unit to make a secondary strike into adjacent foes. Yes it is a sequence of attacks but in English it has a special name; Cleave.

It is the same as saying children's cartoon when you mean anime. They are both cartoons but anime gives you a clear indication of something specific.

I know it sounds pedantic but this is the same as using the term "Elixir" or "Accuracy" they are in fact poorly translated and it is very off putting to native English speakers and especially non-native speakers to not get something that you expect.


Cleave has nothing to do with a secondary attack. You can cleave on a first attack.

Cleave: to split or divide by or as if by a cutting blow; to make by or as if by cutting: to cleave a path through the wilderness; to penetrate or pass through (air, water, etc.); to cut off; sever: to cleave a branch from a tree.

Nothing to do with it being a secondary attack, it's just a way of cutting.

The use of sequence is a tad off, but works. They could have used 'continued the attack' or it could be as simple as 'sequenced the attack' since sequence is referring to a specific attack and not a general 'an attack.'
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Dr.Ido

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 3:31 pm

I can't enter the "Sequence vs. Cleave" discussion, it's much too complicated for me. I'll forward your comment to the guy in charge of translation. Thanks for your feedback anyway.

Regarding the Heroes prices, I just want to confirm that our goal is to keep them balanced in regards to their AP. The first nine Heroes are all at 200 AP, and they should all be balanced.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostWed Jun 04, 2014 3:51 pm

Ido two things: In Silienne's profile it has Hawk Aura with description and Eagle Aura on her list of abilities. Same ability? or did you miss eagle aura's description?

Second please could you also tell the translation guy to look at Incapacitation Shaft; it's a bit of an odd name and doesn't really stick together well or sound specifically related to archery. Like i'm sure polearm weilders could get away with a move using the same name.

Thank you =)
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MhBlis

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Re: Change is coming : Melmoth, Skull Warrior

PostThu Jun 05, 2014 8:49 am

Cleave: to split or divide by or as if by a cutting blow; to make by or as if by cutting: to cleave a path through the wilderness; to penetrate or pass through (air, water, etc.); to cut off; sever: to cleave a branch from a tree.

Here is another dictionaries example:
"You follow through with powerful blows"


I've highlighted the pertinent sections for you. You are right though it is not dictionary definition. I can't think of the technical term but it is along the lines of simile and metaphor.

When someone says "Cut them off at the pass" you know they intend you to head off your quarry from the front. Same effect. Each language has its words that have associations.

As I said before cleave has a very clear meaning when describing either a second attack or an attack that passes through one victim into the next in the context of combat in games and writing. What I am trying to achieve is ease of transition for new players. Someone coming from say Diablo, HOMM, Might and Magic will read the name and immediately know what they are getting from the skill. This means that they feel like they are in familiar territory and that they don't need to learn a whole new set of terminologies on top of new mechanics. All this helps make the ease of entry for new players which will also help in retention. The fewer entry barriers the better.

In the end this is up to the creators on what they name things but it never hurts to make suggestions.
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