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Change is coming : a new game mode

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Astralwyrm

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 5:14 pm

It's starting to sound like a certain sports tabtletop game, granted i never played it so how would i know, but i'm not sure about this change. I get that the idea is to emulate hearthstone and have a hero's that can change up the game all by themselves or maybe you aren't and it just happens to mirror it in someways. I really feel that shutting the game behind 1 game mode that counts is a mistake. Let players play whatever game mode they wish to and encourage players to play all the modes with incentives. This should be done all the more when the game has a healthy population i understand the arguments against in the situation the game is in now.
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Dr.Ido

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 5:25 pm

Astralwyrm wrote: Let players play whatever game mode they wish to and encourage players to play all the modes with incentives. This should be done all the more when the game has a healthy population i understand the arguments against in the situation the game is in now.


When we'll have enought players, we'll be more than happy to add extra game modes. But we need to adapt to the situation. And you can still play as you wish against your friends, don't forget it.We're working on this feature to make it simpler to use.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 5:29 pm

I get that the idea is to emulate hearthstone
as i said - it works much like in 4th edition of Confrontation.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 7:43 pm

So...personally i doesn't make me crazy the random elixir popping...simply because you add randomness to other randomness.

I do not also like that killing the hero -> win but i like the fact that you cannot issue orders (maybe also a INI roll penalty?). This is because im concerned about some builds that will aim at maximizing burst (like wolven) and will directly jump on your heroes.

Also i would like to know more about how you distribute the elixir points in the middle control zone especially if different players' units are there. I assume that i've more AP in those hexagons i automatically get an elixir point?

last but not least...this comes down to personal taste but i find odd the use of "Elixir point" it reminds me some kind of platform game where you have to collect stuff around :)
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DeathsAdvocate

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 8:47 pm

Sounds like it has potential, a few important notes.

I very much think killing a hero should award some elixir rather then just winning, and primarily without the use of your heroes orders you are at a big disadvantage as apposed to simply loosing.

The systems in place seem good however I think the amount of elixir required to win should be raised significantly perhaps doubled or tripled from seven that way the game is more about actually fighting each other and less about some silly scavenger hunt where you avoid fighting. This allows elixir to be a powerful advantageous resource used for giving your heroes abilities or with careful management a way to win. This way it will encourage strategic play without actually discouraging what this game is all about WAR.

I have seen strategic resource systems work very well in a very similar game PoxNora, as well as a fun rts the Dawn of War series. In both their were objectives and key areas you could get to give you these extra resources, neither of them were actually used to just directly win the game just simply to give you the edge. Honestly I don't even like the idea of these resources strait up winning at all, they really should just be resources, but if you really want that alternate win in there at least make sure you have it high enough that you do not discourage fighting your opponent.

And on a side note I really like long and hard battles, it feels more like a war then just a skirmish, and I like large armies. Most competitive players in this genre would agree that smaller shorter modes are more for casual play. The competitive mode where you should focus the balance of this game should be in the higher ap bracket like the current 800 area and should have more like 20 or more turns to win. 10 turns can force people to play just an all out fight rather then strategic maneuvering and careful planing. While a turn limit needs to be there it should only be there to prevent stalemates as apposed to put a rush on the game.

Lastly while I personally like the new direction (at least if my ideas for it were used :P) more then my beloved deathmatch. The simple fact is the majority of people still prefer deathmatch and it is both what attracts and keeps new players. Every new map feature you add, adds more to the already steep learning curve. Truly learning how to kill your opponent in a variety of different ways is already enough to take in, and adding more content and balance adds just as much depth and strategy to the game. The main point of this is if you choose a resource system or any extra objectives be sure to make it simple and don't let it detract from the best aspect of the game.
Last edited by DeathsAdvocate on Wed May 21, 2014 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 10:01 pm

last but not least...this comes down to personal taste but i find odd the use of "Elixir point" it reminds me some kind of platform game where you have to collect stuff around :)
'
CaotR had even hero resurections for elixirs ;)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deuzerre

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 10:03 pm

Killing the Hero shouldn't cause a win, but provide elixirs.

Otherwise, I'd lie if I said I was enthusiastic?
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DeathsAdvocate

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 10:26 pm

Astralwyrm wrote:It's starting to sound like a certain sports tabtletop game, granted i never played it so how would i know, but i'm not sure about this change. I get that the idea is to emulate hearthstone and have a hero's that can change up the game all by themselves or maybe you aren't and it just happens to mirror it in someways. I really feel that shutting the game behind 1 game mode that counts is a mistake. Let players play whatever game mode they wish to and encourage players to play all the modes with incentives. This should be done all the more when the game has a healthy population i understand the arguments against in the situation the game is in now.


Any competitive game should largely focus on one mode for balance, alternative modes are just that, alternative. They are for fun/casual play, not to mention a game like this is already hard enough to balance on one mode much less across multiple modes and ap brackets. It also divides the already small community. Once there is a large active community more modes will come, and those modes can be individually balanced or left casual depending on the devs time and the communities demands.

(Side note this universe is much much older then hearthstone and the game mechanics really can not be compared. But purely from the standpoint of a hero, yes it is kind of similar and is a system that can work.)
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MhBlis

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 10:50 pm

This sounds more like Warmachine/Hordes where the base units are all the same but the Hero radically alters how they play.

1.
As for this random popping up elixer rubbish just NO. Randomness on top of randomness is just awful.

I would say have 3-5 fixed points where it will spawn in sequence with a one turn warning. ie Zone glows red and next turn the elixer spawns. That way you know where it is going to be and can react rather than getting hosed because you are playing a slow army or the RNG spawns them all on the far side of the map.

You are setting this up for fast army abuse. Just sprint your fast unit to an elixer and then run round the map because nothing can catch you. Combine that with one or two strong defensive units in the middle and your golden. No need for actual combat.

2.
I too would say make Hero's free and give them different Elixer points based on their skill set. So if you have one with a bunch of powerful abilities only give him enough so he only cast 1 a turn compared to a one with a bunch of weak abilities that they can spam

3.
Killing the Hero should take you a large way to wining the game but should not outright win it.


Over all my impression here is not good having seen much the same system fail every time it was tried in other systems. I'll hold off till I actually see the other systems and how they interact but hope is not high.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Change is coming : a new game mode

PostWed May 21, 2014 11:34 pm

at the time devs didn't confirmed how they planed to divide hero choose form party composition but im against same cost for any hero... whole 'magic' of such games is with diversity and different units costs...
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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