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Deep Blue's inexorable tide

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Deep Blue

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostSat Apr 05, 2014 1:08 pm

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
If i would deal 14 damage (calculated with the formula you refer to) the flat damage would simply add its value to the final result...so your 14 damage (i say damage not DAM!) will get increase by +3/+6 (regardless of enemy's TOU)

you sure about that ?

all Alahan skills don't give flat bonus but normal damage table result - so sometimes +3 STR gives only +1/2 damage.


Bloodlust (which is basically scourge : all) or any other scourge-like effect does not simply add a +3 DAM to your roll but it adds 3 (stacking) to each result. This is extremely important as the grave guardian (for example) with scourge living dead can make 4 damage (1+3 from scourge) to the golem instead of making the golem suffer a DAM 10+3 - which would result in a 2.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostSat Apr 05, 2014 2:55 pm

something like that and alahan archer with Aim would be nice vs golem propably :P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Almanro

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostSat Apr 05, 2014 6:17 pm

Deep Blue wrote:Here is the list in case you want to try it out:

1x Skull warrior lvl 4 - hard boiled / taunt / scourge: living
3x Skeleton warrior lvl 2 - hard boiled
2x Skeleton archers lvl 2 - Fierce + 1 with Crippling Shot OR vs ram 2x Skeleton archers lvl 2 - Ferocious
1x Gargoyle lvl 3 - Elusive / Sneak attack



As I mentioned in another post, the Skeleton warriors HB are very powerful atm, since they cost nothing AP wise and they can sustain a lot of wounds (as you noticed, they last a lot of turns against even the Golem!).

I personally like your proposed composition, I would however change the Skull with a Black Paladin lvl 3 Occult/Exalted + another Skel Warrior lvl 3 - HB/Martyr and substituting one of the Skel lvl 2 with another lvl3 HB/Martyr when playing against Acheron, since against them the +6 bonus of the Skull will be wasted (otherwise, you can also use a second Skull with HB/Taunt/Implacable or HB/Taunt/Fierce, in the second case however, you'll lose the HB on a Skel or the Ferocious on an Archer - not a good idea).

Another couple of compositions I'm trying at the moment are based on the Black Paladins and their Loyal attribute, but without a "reset" item I'm having some difficulties in trying all the possibilities I've in mind.

PS: At the moment, I'm also trying to lvl up a Priest... :_(

PPS: I can confirm that Aura of the Crepuscolar Princes is a very bad choice at the moment: can't be used against Acheron armies and you have to leave out "Occult Erosion" that is very effective against any mage in any army. It may be useful only if you play a Necro Wave of Death Compo, for the puppets, but I'd prefer 2 HB Skel instead...
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Deep Blue

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostSun Apr 06, 2014 10:11 am

i thought about switching the skull for a pala vs acheron as well...but even if that +6 damage is wasted the role the skull warrior plays makes it worth it.

here is why (in my opinion):

- it still does more damage than the pala + has higher damage resistance
- Taunt makes you win the skeleton warriors fights (-3 DAM on your HB skellies is huge in that mirror)
- Taunt allows them to survive 2-3 turns in melee with the golem which means your archers have more time to tear it down. Also taunt = 100% chance to hit vs miracles that have a 50% -and i really hate that RNG :D
- Taunt allows also your gargoyle to generally resist much more. Often i do not need occult erosion vs the necros as 2 archers and a gargoyle are enough to put pressure on casters.

so all in all i really love taunt :)

@ DW remember that aim is not flat damage just +DAM
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostThu Apr 17, 2014 2:29 am

I had a chance to do a couple of games with this set up and did pretty well with it. Managed to beat a wolfen group with a grave guardian(with scourge living dead), fangs, crossbowman and guardian of the runes. It was a fun match since it almost ran like a medievil battle, moving the warriors in formation shifting them around in anticipation of enemy approach so if they dared move in they were undoubtedly going to be surrounded the next turn. Since he couldn't effectively move in on me the crossbowman was really the only enemy i had to worry about. I even managed to cripple one of the opponent's fangs as he tried to get within attacking distance of my archer, which took away those few extra movement he needed to get in close combat forcing him to retreat him next turn. Surprisingly the grave guardian was pretty easy to subdue (i put it down to luck) i was forced to move in on him with my skull warrior once the rune guardian threw out yllia's love onto him to try to heal his wounds from archer fire.

My other battle was against lions and i took a pounding from their archers (i always do they are mean x.x) but i managed to just about win with a weakened archer and mostly full health warrior left over. Course now i have to start dealing with the injuries on my units because i've been having them mount up while i try to buy up more units and respec. All my good units are injured =x besides the new level 2 POB i bought and leveled. edit: i can attest that the tide holds firm against the level 5 worg ^^
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Deep Blue

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostThu Apr 17, 2014 1:05 pm

good to know it is performing well :-) If i count all matches i did with this comp i think in the end i reached 30 : 4 as result over the course of 3 weeks.

If i remember correctly the four losses were something like that:

- a very close one vs a worg and he had 3 HP left. I think it was mostly bad luck related but what to do :)

- 4x lvl 3 archers + 5x swordsmen in the acheron map where they can turtle amazingly well and i could attack only from their front. Not much to do for me there.

- 3x necro team (1 was nuker) + 4x archers. Now this showed one weakness of this build: heavy nukers.

- 1x priest lvl 5 team (forgot the exact comp). And this showed the weakness again - although the guy played it very well.

So i came to the conclusion that other ram comps are the main counters but only if they rely on some heavy nukers (necro or priest - nobody plays celestial scourge these days). Luckly not many players play that comp but i started to believe that it would be more beneficial to swap the skull warrior with a paladin (occult erosion+somatic) and an extra archer.

In this way you will still be able to win vs the other ram popular builds but also have a better shot vs heavy casters builds which can easily obliterate your skull warrior.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostFri Apr 18, 2014 10:57 am

Today and a bit yesterday i've been playing with a lion group i put together (Lions of parel) 3 wins to 0 losses so far with this setup. Two of the battles were with the inexorable tide setup. The only loss i've had so far was a mistake before i made the setup. x.x

The setup is 3 Swordsman level 2 + parry, 2 level 3 archers with accuracy and double shot and 2 level 2 archers with accuracy. I finish it off with a level 2 Valkyrie with favourable auspices for 386 ap. The last battle i had i swapped a level 2 archer for another level 2 valkyrie at 396 ap to see if it would pay off and all signs are good so far. Bassically anything that isn't an archer is a meat shield and anything not on my team is target practice >=D

The inexorable tide really takes a pounding if it isn't able to get a close position to me during deployment. The longer those undead are moving towards me and not attacking is more damage they take before they actually start dishing out some themselves. The gargoyle is also not very safe to move in on the archers alone since he has valkyries and boosted triple shots to contend with.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostFri Apr 18, 2014 11:05 am

3 wins to 0 losses so far with this setup. Two of the battles were with the inexorable tide setup. The only loss i've had so far was a mistake before i made the setup.

so 3:0 or 3:1 ? :P

The setup is 3 Swordsman level 2 + parry, 2 level 3 archers with accuracy and double shot and 2 level 2 archers with accuracy.

I really hate 4+ archers comapnies...
not that i cant win with them if i play Lion/Ram but games vs them are simple borring and based about waiting for the right gap. Morover they are easy to play with so many top players using 4+ bows are still terrible players that only makes new legends of OP Alahan.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostFri Apr 18, 2014 11:20 am

Astralwyrm wrote:Today and a bit yesterday i've been playing with a lion group i put together (Lions of parel) 3 wins to 0 losses so far with this setup. Two of the battles were with the inexorable tide setup. The only loss i've had so far was a mistake before i made the setup. x.x

The setup is 3 Swordsman level 2 + parry, 2 level 3 archers with accuracy and double shot and 2 level 2 archers with accuracy. I finish it off with a level 2 Valkyrie with favourable auspices for 386 ap. The last battle i had i swapped a level 2 archer for another level 2 valkyrie at 396 ap to see if it would pay off and all signs are good so far. Bassically anything that isn't an archer is a meat shield and anything not on my team is target practice >=D

The inexorable tide really takes a pounding if it isn't able to get a close position to me during deployment. The longer those undead are moving towards me and not attacking is more damage they take before they actually start dishing out some themselves. The gargoyle is also not very safe to move in on the archers alone since he has valkyries and boosted triple shots to contend with.


yeah i imagine that your setup is hard to beat (OP lion archers :( ) but it is all about waiting for the right gap. If the gargoyle gets in and you manage to block 1-2 more archer with the skeletons the skull warrior will deal so easily with the rest as it will be more protected. On certain maps this is almost impossible unfortunately (acheron map with a diamon shape is ridicolous for that company!!)
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Deep Blue's inexorable tide

PostSat Apr 19, 2014 2:15 am

My first game this week with lions i accidentally slept walked into x.x i wanted to train! so i kind of just lumped a heap of what units i had at the time. But yeah i had another match earlier on the diamond shaped map, the version where the good cover is on either side of your deployment zone, the undead army advanced up either side using the full cover to force me to move my archers downward to get aim and then the garg pounced. Losing one was enough to turn the tables on me. However all i need to do is change my deployment to counter that possibility next time...

Lion archers really are very powerful, i don't really dispute how much fun they are to play against as i've been there on both sides now and fighting them is brutal. They are in the opposite position of the wolfen crossbowman in my mind right now. I mean why do they get multi-shot abilities and multiple avenues to buff their accuracy? Unless they were much more expensive than they are now. Because 1 lion archer is probbably worth 2 crossbowman right now and i'm not even joking. A lion archer on average can take a near 100% shot every turn it's on the field and also fire multiple shots thanks to double shot. While a crossbowman on average (atleast for me) is struggling just to get a decent 60+ accuracy shot on any given turn (i don't confess to be any super player of crossbowman).The skeleton archers by contrast are very economical and prove their worth. Yet they aren't really the most powerful of units so you have no reason to rely on them too much.

Lets just say for example we just do some ability swapping with wolfen and the lion archers. Does anyone still use assault fire? i mean it's one of those abilities that would only be useful if there was just the crossbowman and a half dead enemy unit strait in a line ahead of him. Plus he's also completely alone and/or another one of your own units is close by to make sure he's completely dead. What if we gave the crossbowman double shot instead? and we gave the lion archers herassment instead of double shot. Wouldn't that be more balanced in the current state of the game? I mean the wolfen crossbowman still needs to worry about accuracy to pull the double shot off and the lion archer can no longer double shot without offensive stance but gains a way to make them more mobile. I mean currently lion archers have the option of a damaging arrow attack and a... damaging arrow attack? is that really that interesting? Or maybe crossbowman should instead get aim and turn it into a +3 acc buff instead of a damage buff?

Personally i would just like to see double shot and favourable auspice reflect their actual value in the current game. I need to get back actually to playing the game and stop typing now.... ^^';;
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