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Help the Lion Newbie

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Deep Blue

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 10:44 am

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
MhBlis wrote:How effective is the archer and swordsmen spam armies at higher AP? At 250 I've found them to be pretty forgiving of mistakes.

At the time Swordsman + Bowman and Lions + Bowman are only Alahan effective companies at 400 ap.


wait, so swordsmen are good? :twisted:
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GardenOfSun

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 11:17 am

So the mage isn't good?
Sad to hear that, I was toying with the idea of having a magic-centered Alahan comp (not sure if my second company will be that or a bruiser-y Acheron).
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 11:35 am

Deep Blue wrote:wait, so swordsmen are good? :twisted:

take this warm picture from me as a token of my appreciation to your post http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2012 ... minate.jpg

One or two swordsman are must have for math reasons - unless you want to play 360 points company at some point :P
especialy when current Valkyrie is yet another swordsman with favorable asects and there is no reason of having more than two lions becouse they need srong stance/first activation support to be efective.
But as i said - only bowmans and lions are cost effective (unless lions face STR 15)

So the mage isn't good?
Sad to hear that, I was toying with the idea of having a magic-centered Alahan comp (not sure if my second company will be that or a bruiser-y Acheron).

Was good but was nerfed to the ground by total of 3+3 nerfs last patch ;P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 2:30 pm

as a lion opponent...mages are still good. Now they just require a bit more brain. In small maps AoE damage is very hard to avoid...a lvl 5 mage using 2x AoE damage (+focus) usually does more damage than a PoB during a game....and has a pseudo-coscience with that AOE attack, so that you can do damage without exposing yourself. Add the fact you have divine favor which makes the mage totally free from disengage and cast.

I think the players perception about the mage is simply because some maps are quite small and you might be rushed from the beginning.
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AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:10 pm

as a lion opponent...mages are still good. Now they just require a bit more brain. In small maps AoE damage is very hard to avoid...a lvl 5 mage using 2x AoE damage (+focus) usually does more damage than a PoB during a game....and has a pseudo-coscience with that AOE attack, so that you can do damage without exposing yourself. Add the fact you have divine favor which makes the mage totally free from disengage and cast.

I think the players perception about the mage is simply because some maps are quite small and you might be rushed from the beginning.

You are partialy right - but while smaller maps make Lev 5 direct damage Mages more dangerous (lets forget for a while about whole devotion nerf) - all other mage builds below this lev are terrible now. Previously lev 3 mage could be also usefull...
IMO whole primal nerf was wrong - I dont like the idea that high level mages must use high level spells. Simply higl level mage could choose if he want ot cast one Chatisment/Scourge or two primals... now primal is only last chance hit for full mana mage that used both chatisments and have mana for one more spell.

About Chatisment and small maps - you are also partialy right - but for me its wrong that one (good even before) spell become even more usefull while 3 another was nerfed...

All that was necessary was reduction of danneran frequency to 2 + both sparkling healing restriction.


*and again you forget that devotion deals 10hp that won't be healed while RAM martyr deals 4 that mostly can be heal once per 3 turns when damage will be higher than 10 :P

*and Mage base Dod is so low that even with +10 elites/assaults have serious chance to hit him.

:P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:43 pm

you can't compare the faith with mana as you can't compare two casters from different races in my opinion.

The priest generally loses the initiative roll which often means it will be death, while the mage in general will start first and it could dish some damage or simply retreat. I also add that divine favor is a huge advantage that i wish my priest would have. AoE damage is available only to the mage and can potentially hit targets that are hiding behind rocks, which the priest can't as it must expose itself. Celestial scourge is still a nice nuke + a debuff (+3 damage is really huge)

as for the primal attack...it was really out of hand before especially with focus. What it was... about 30 damage for 6 mana?
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AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:54 pm

but RAM 'stance'' gives option to activate skeleton with martyr and Priest in the same time ;P

as for the primal attack...it was really out of hand before especially with focus. What it was... about 30 damage for 6 mana?

Only on really close range - when most of wolfens can offense stance him ;P

but as i said - Chatisment was main choice for mage even before... i thing it always was main choice for Lev 4 from 0.10
so making it even more obvious choise is no fix at all at cost of reducing all lower lev builds to crap and scourge build to be only effective golem counter ;P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 8:15 pm

I have to be honest the only action my Lion (lvl1 with 2 available) has seen of late is my daily missions. WHen I did use him I found that he did little other than my swordsmen did. His higher cost means I end up with less mercs or lower level ones on the table.

I just bought my Valk so in the next few days I'll be moving into the 400 bracket.
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GardenOfSun

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 8:55 pm

Nice to see I sparked a nice debate about the mage. ^_^

I seriously hope he can still be viable, I really like the idea of a magic themed Alahan company. Maybe 1 high level mage + 1/2 sparkling + 1 Valk + something else?
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 9:26 pm

MhBlis wrote:I have to be honest the only action my Lion (lvl1 with 2 available) has seen of late is my daily missions. WHen I did use him I found that he did little other than my swordsmen did. His higher cost means I end up with less mercs or lower level ones on the table.

I just bought my Valk so in the next few days I'll be moving into the 400 bracket.

Lion highly needs stances support to be effective but deffensive, offensive and divine works with him really great.
Deffensive Stance for 'offensive' block with additional ruthles penalty
Offensive for finishing off wounded (by one arrow will be enough) specials and archers in one turn with pursuit attack or move back to avoid enemy charges.
Divine for Lev 1 Lion for 80-90% Parry after an attack.

Best choices for lion are imo lev 1 and 3
lev 3 with surprise attack... but 1 with divane works even better.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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