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Help the Lion Newbie

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Deep Blue

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostMon Mar 24, 2014 7:40 pm

i never experienced this issue in the new patch. Other than that with 60 seconds to adapt your army, considering you know how to change it (i mean is not like you have so many different comps and i think you can plan ahead) it usually takes me less than 10-15 seconds. Is not like closed where every match made you change your comp :(
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AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostMon Mar 24, 2014 8:47 pm

Deep Blue wrote:i never experienced this issue in the new patch. Other than that with 60 seconds to adapt your army, considering you know how to change it (i mean is not like you have so many different comps and i think you can plan ahead) it usually takes me less than 10-15 seconds. Is not like closed where every match made you change your comp :(

i never tried that - mostly because of (fixed?) bug ;)
but if you say that is fixet - maybe scourge mage will be a interesting option... unfortunatly even this skill was nerfed for him...
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostMon Mar 24, 2014 11:09 pm

Yeah coming from a competitive Table Top background a second list is always useful. I tend to prefer building all commer lists but I do see the worth in it. As someone has said though currently scourge is bugged and nerfed. That said this thread is about creating some guidance for new players just starting out. A second list is something to look out for in future but first you need to get a 400 company up and running.

PS. after a week I'm at 341AP
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Errol Flynn

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:10 am

MhBlis wrote:So my units are coming together nicely though the Knight, Valk and sparklings will now have to wait.

So

Swordsmen

Why Parry (+Parr) over Vivacity(+DOD)?

Archers

I see the advise threads all use Elusive. I can see why Accuracy is useful but wouldn't Sharpshooter also shine?

Archer Army
Currently I'm using 3 archers 2xlvl2 1xlvl3 and 3 Swordsmen 2xlvl2 and 1xlvl1. For the future (400AP) would people recommend I leave the swordsmen at lvl1 or bring them all the way up to lvl3.
Also anythings on using sparklings as healers? or better to aim for a Valk?


Swordsmen:
Parry is a must have because it works with the swordsmen's natural game plan: Move in and block. Base PARR 11 then goes to 14 when under the effects of the parry skill. That is top level parry, making them hard to hit for just 33 AP. A lion swordsman with parry can also use defensive stance MUCH more effectively than virtually any unit.
Vivacity is good, but as others have stated it brings your DOD from 8 (poor) to 10 (poor-average). Also not all companies are ranged focused, and if they are Vivacity will count for little anyway.

Archers:
Accuracy is a must have. Sharpshooter is not as useful as it sounds and very expensive AP wise. Elusive is cheap but will not add anywhere near as much to your Archers performance as accuracy. Both level 3 abilities are very good. Double shot combines well with Divine Favour, and also very effective when point blank shotting units with average DOD. Aim combines well with Favourable Auspices (Valk ability). Aim is very powerful but only effects 1 shot a turn and you must not have moved.

On healing:
Valks are not really a healer at all now. The valk ability heals 10 HP in total and none the turn you cast it. This is not useless but close to it, especially if you do not include a Knight. If you take a Valk the main reason is Favourable Auspices which for the most part is an archer buff. The Valk can boost the archers and act as a guard for them.
Sparkling is really a companion unit for a wizard, or filler AP while other units level. The sparkling heal is again not good enough, uses your activation, only heals 5 HP (less than half a hit for most of your units) and potentially leaves your spark in danger. I used to use a sparkling as my team mascot even named him 'Puck' but I don't use wizards and the devs have made sparks into pure mana batteries and Seal (wiz spell) targets.
The legendary for lion gets a group heal. If you are not using that then lion are not really healers anymore.

Knight of the Lion:
This unit is actually very good. Its AP is very high but there are many units that cannot really hurt him. The problem is there are also many spells that will ruin him quite easily. This guy is so tough that the Valk heal works well on him. Lots of units will do 2-3 damage a hit on the KotL, and he is hard to hit, meaning the Valk heal will help keep him going stronger for longer. The sad part for the KotL is against a legendary unit he is absolutely useless, pure wasted AP.
He is a good guy to take to battle but his high AP cost will mean you have to forget about strength in numbers, leaving your KotL with lots of work to do. The KotL makes your team much more vulnerable to many spells, as a successful cast can often mean he is effectively 'dead' and at least 127 AP has been dealt with.
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Almanro

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:26 am

Errol Flynn wrote:Knight of the Lion:
This unit is actually very good. Its AP is very high but there are many units that cannot really hurt him. The problem is there are also many spells that will ruin him quite easily. This guy is so tough that the Valk heal works well on him. Lots of units will do 2-3 damage a hit on the KotL, and he is hard to hit, meaning the Valk heal will help keep him going stronger for longer. The sad part for the KotL is against a legendary unit he is absolutely useless, pure wasted AP.
He is a good guy to take to battle but his high AP cost will mean you have to forget about strength in numbers, leaving your KotL with lots of work to do. The KotL makes your team much more vulnerable to many spells, as a successful cast can often mean he is effectively 'dead' and at least 127 AP has been dealt with.


I partially agree with your analysis of the KotL, however I may add that it is useful only either against new players or in the Tiny Maps when he alone can completely block a path to your archers/mages. In all the other case, experienced players know well that they can completely ignore him (since his offensive damage is very low) and focus on killing all your other units, then, when he will be heavily outnumbered, circle and kill him! Instead of a single knight you may use 3 Guards, who can shield better your archers/mages from more directions respect to the single knight (give to one of them "For the Light!" and if correctly used it can completely block a path to your weaker units and next turn you can "substitute" it with another one fast & easy since Lions will win the ini most of the times).
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Errol Flynn

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 3:44 am

You are right Almanro, but everything is less useful against good players. He can block a path to your squishies like swordsmen do but very well. He can also be a very effective 'clamp' or offensive defensive unit that locks down enemies into tight spots allowing your squishies to move into better positions to unleash their fire.
Lion units are 'defensive' but can be used in the same way on offence.
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MhBlis

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 7:52 am

Thank you all for the great run down on the unit and advise you've given so far.

How effective is the archer and swordsmen spam armies at higher AP? At 250 I've found them to be pretty forgiving of mistakes.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 8:27 am

MhBlis wrote:How effective is the archer and swordsmen spam armies at higher AP? At 250 I've found them to be pretty forgiving of mistakes.

At the time Swordsman + Bowman and Lions + Bowman are only Alahan effective companies at 400 ap.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Errol Flynn

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 8:50 am

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
MhBlis wrote:How effective is the archer and swordsmen spam armies at higher AP? At 250 I've found them to be pretty forgiving of mistakes.

At the time Swordsman + Bowman and Lions + Bowman are only Alahan effective companies at 400 ap.


Other lion builds are viable at 400 AP. Most require a good plan and player though. Other builds are more strength and weakness builds. Swords + Archers + Lion(s) + even a Valk is a strong and flexible team, but not necessarily a better team.
If you are finding the Lion of War difficult to use, you need to get better with it. It is a great value killer and great DAM for the Lion Faction. Having high discipline and usually getting the first turn can make the LoW absolutely devastating.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Help the Lion Newbie

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 9:07 am

Other builds are more strength and weakness builds. Swords + Archers + Lion(s) + even a Valk is a strong and flexible team

for me its still the same composition ;)

but partialy yes - one Valk is only option to add anything interesting to usefull Alahan party. She may not be great bumostly have her uses.

I played Swordsman+Valk+2 Lions+3 archers (2x lev 1, 1x lev3) week ago with resonable ratio on resonable maps :P

If you are finding the Lion of War difficult to use, you need to get better with it. It is a great value killer and great DAM for the Lion Faction. Having high discipline and usually getting the first turn can make the LoW absolutely devastating.

As i said before - its one of two main faction units now. Only one with good STR and additionaly with ruthles that can be a great help (only easy to get "str" bonus) for other units around. His only problem is TOU 5 (and low Will Vs high fear elites)... one more and he would be much less risky.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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