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Two competitive Undead Builds

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Malice

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Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 12:02 pm

Right then, the ladder has just finished, so I'd thought I'd share the 2 builds that allowed me to finish at rank 1.

3 Gargoyles, Hard Boiled, Sneak Attack
5 Skeleton Warriors, Hard Boiled

The strategy is simple enough, the gargoyles are the damage dealers and the skeletons clean up everything else. On an open battlefield, this build very hard to beat. The stuff it loses to however, or does poorly against are high level golems, highly defensive armies that have the terrain on their side and the priest with spiritual aggression, pally with exhausting touch, 3 HB martyr skeles and a ferocious archer build. That is really it…….

I also use this build:

3 Gargoyles, Hard Boil, Sneak Attack
3 Skeleton Archers, Ferocious, Incapacitating Shaft
1 Skeleton Archer, Ferocious

In preference I always load up with the first build, but then if I meet a golem player, or someone who likes to sit on their ass and do nothing and I meet him/her again, I use this build. It has never lost against a golem based build for obvious reasons(Ferocious always does 6 Damage and incapacitating shaft halves the movement rounding down. Strategy is again simple, shoot him until the enemy comes to you, then run them over with a brutal counterattack from the gargs.

That is about it really, I ended up with about a 3-4:1 win loss rate, this would of been more 4-5 to 1, but I switched builds half way through the week, because something looked cool. It was a costly mistake to say the least and I ended up losing about 2/3 of my games with that build(It was the priest with spiritual aggression, pally with exhausting touch, 3 HB martyr skeles and a ferocious archer build, recommended to me by Deep Blue, after he beat both the aforementioned builds with it). I lost about 10 games out of the 15 I played with that build, it only seemed to work against certain opposing compositions, so I retreated in shame back to my two winning builds.

A few other side comments, personally I don't use necromancers and priests, they are simply too fragile, considering the close spawns. Making it not unlikely for an archer to get a free shot or two before you even activate, especially lion archers with their divine favor. Skull warriors are again viable which is cool, but I always choose gargs and skeles over them. Golem players I have no respect for you.

I hope this has given some grounding to anyone look to start a competitive undead composition.

Thanks,
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Deep Blue

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Re: Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 12:22 pm

my priest build is very difficult to use as often the map doesn't help you + it takes time to learn as you really need almost flawless positioning to work around archers (enemy nr 1) to setup good transfers. For sure the two builds you posted (that i recognize being probably the best undead has to offer atm - well anything with 5 HB skeletons actually) require much less plan and they forgive many mistakes. Having your priest killed means you lost the game most likely while with these builds do not really have any key units to protect.

I wonder how the first one performs vs a golem as to me you have few chances (please correct me if im wrong). Unless you noted down each player who uses a golem and switch to the second comp when you face them i believe it won't be easy at all.

I also do not have respect for certain army setups i faced but truth is that those players are not guilty of anything as the game was not made by them. Hate the game not the players is my motto ;)

edit:

im sure it will be even more effective:

5x HB skeletons
4x archers (3 with ferocious)
1x gargoyle with sneak attack and elusive

399 AP of pure zergness. I would never play this but i can't imagine losing with this list vs any wolf warband.
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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DJ Raffa

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Re: Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 3:59 pm

3x Gargoyles is annoying to face, although I prefer Elusive these days to stop dem attacks of oppurtunity, but with Undead like always going last I can see why HB is working for you.

On topic of Flesh Golems...

I dislike them because they can turn into no-skill-I-still-win units and it is annoying when your carefully thought through army gets stomped by a Golem BUT there is a case for using them.

Firstly, just from a competitive standpoint, I will almost always take my Lv. 4 Golem (Mobile/HB/Rapidity) in games against Wolfen. I bought the Golem because I was sick (and still kind of am) of Wolfen Crossbow harassment which is so effective against a lot of BOs, and they find it very, very hard to kill the Golem so it's at least a draw. I usually run with 2 Gargoyles or 1 + 2x Archers in tow to try and pick off the stuff that runs away.

I justify using the Golem to myself because the still kind of zerg meta means that many players take skills on Wolfen just focused on dealing damage quickly to not-so-tough targets and often wreck builds like Priest-centred ones (my favourite to use), which has nothing to do with what I put in my composition.

Against Lions using the Golem is dumb - 3 archers with accurate (double shot + divine favour ofc) deal with a Golem quite comfortably for around half the price. And against Undead they can spam ferocious. So against these 2 you know whether you've won or lost (or drawn, grr) the game before it starts, not fun for me.

So I don't hate on the Golem for 2 reasons:
1. I have a high-level one that I want to use sometimes. In Acheron Black. ;)
2. It's stupid to use it against anything but Wolfen, and it's only useful vs them because they take the troll harassment skills, Middle Way, etc..
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Vahire

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Re: Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 4:48 pm

LOL,gj with rank 1.Were you tied with package or you manage to get ahead of him in the end ?

@ Deep blue : i think this zerg comp would get countered by the GG but im an horrible wolfmen player so i can only speculate.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 8:31 pm

Vahire wrote:LOL,gj with rank 1.Were you tied with package or you manage to get ahead of him in the end ?

@ Deep blue : i think this zerg comp would get countered by the GG but im an horrible wolfmen player so i can only speculate.


you mean the one i suggested? uhm i never had the pleasure to find it (phew) but i doubt wolf could win easily...the GG is very good but it must take scourge living dead which now given the current meta is a must. Without it it won't have any chance to beat that list imo. PoB compared to GG is still a joke sadly :-( Unfortunately wolven now can't use more than 5 units if you are aiming to create a company with some quality in it (aka with the GG/PoB) which means that once it is surrounded you will have serious issues.

well performing wolf builds should have 6+ units in my opinion (and yeah i count also ferocious)
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Malice

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Re: Two competitive Undead Builds

PostMon Mar 17, 2014 9:28 pm

my priest build is very difficult to use as often the map doesn't help you + it takes time to learn as you really need almost flawless positioning to work around archers (enemy nr 1) to setup good transfers.


@ Deep Blue: Yes, positioning is essential and you are right the map rarely help. I have a fair bit of experience with using priests, so it isn't like I don't know how to use them, but again like you said the build is not forgiving and if you lose the priest you most often lose the game. Hence, it is not my favorite for maintaining a consistent win/loss, because I don't do very smart things sometimes.

I wonder how the first one performs vs a golem as to me you have few chances (please correct me if im wrong). Unless you noted down each player who uses a golem and switch to the second comp when you face them i believe it won't be easy at all.


Yeah the first build does poorly against golems, as the hard boiled skeles only do one damage a hit and the gargs only do four per hit. So I end up going for a draw almost everytime.

The stuff it loses to however, or does poorly against are high level golems


@Vahire: I got ahead of him in the end it was 114 to me and 112 to him XD.

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