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Undead version of mobility

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Splagadou

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Undead version of mobility

PostSat Mar 15, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi all,

First of all, feel free to point me my mistakes as english not my main tongue.

Then, I have build I would suggest before spending points in it (and THIS IS BETA :D , so let's share ideas) :

- 1 Necromancer - lvl 4 - Morbid Exp / Recovery / Wave of Death = 101 AP
- 1 Necromancer - lvl 3 - Morbid Exp / Recovery = 77 AP
- 2 Gargoyles - lvl 2 - Elusive = 59*2 = 118 AP
- 2 Archers - lvl 1 = 31*2 = 62 AP
- 1 Warrior - lvl 3 - Hard-Boiled / Quick strike = 42 AP

The point is : control the movement.

The 2 necro can cast pretty much puppets, it's used at most to block paths and, when useless, to explode in the face of lions (I hate lions). The Wave of Death is here because I discovered the huge range it have and wonder if it worths it. The necro as pretty similar as loosing one is hard, but not too bitter.

The gargoyles assure a fast covering of the map where others cant go AND, do a lot of damage as every special units. Why 2 ? because of the dissuasion it gives to the opponent. You can expect the movement of one, not 2. The problem is, they are fragile but arent puppet made for that ? surround enemys to make them go slower and letting the gargoyles take the fresh skull of alahan archers and make them snake under teeths ?

The archers are important as it is often the only solution to force some hidden humans to go out (and necros too, but they are more friendly :P ).

The warrior is lvl 2 to take more damages and lvl 3 because i rather be on 400 points (and it could be useful one day).

Thx for giving me some advices as I think of it interesting but too expensive to spend my ducats away.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSat Mar 15, 2014 5:18 pm

Splagadou wrote:Hi all,

First of all, feel free to point me my mistakes as english not my main tongue.

Then, I have build I would suggest before spending points in it (and THIS IS BETA :D , so let's share ideas) :

- 1 Necromancer - lvl 4 - Morbid Exp / Recovery / Wave of Death = 101 AP
- 1 Necromancer - lvl 3 - Morbid Exp / Recovery = 77 AP
- 2 Gargoyles - lvl 2 - Elusive = 59*2 = 118 AP
- 2 Archers - lvl 1 = 31*2 = 62 AP
- 1 Warrior - lvl 3 - Hard-Boiled / Quick strike = 42 AP

The point is : control the movement.

The 2 necro can cast pretty much puppets, it's used at most to block paths and, when useless, to explode in the face of lions (I hate lions). The Wave of Death is here because I discovered the huge range it have and wonder if it worths it. The necro as pretty similar as loosing one is hard, but not too bitter.

The gargoyles assure a fast covering of the map where others cant go AND, do a lot of damage as every special units. Why 2 ? because of the dissuasion it gives to the opponent. You can expect the movement of one, not 2. The problem is, they are fragile but arent puppet made for that ? surround enemys to make them go slower and letting the gargoyles take the fresh skull of alahan archers and make them snake under teeths ?

The archers are important as it is often the only solution to force some hidden humans to go out (and necros too, but they are more friendly :P ).

The warrior is lvl 2 to take more damages and lvl 3 because i rather be on 400 points (and it could be useful one day).

Thx for giving me some advices as I think of it interesting but too expensive to spend my ducats away.


it is nice to see new undead players ;-)

my advices:

-I really love gargoyles and also sneak attack. Consider to make space for it as it is very good to make damage without getting hit back (it is still a DAM 12 hit so nothing to scoff at!)
- How you plan to deal vs a legendary like the flesh golem (there are a lot running around right now)? without changing the comp too much i would say give ferociousx2 to your archers. That should be enough to kill the golem as it will be probably blocked by your puppet swarm.
- Quick strike is not worth it without ferocious (or in general). Hardboiled or ferocious is the real choice
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Splagadou

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSat Mar 15, 2014 8:05 pm

Thx for the answer Deep Blue (and the welcoming).

For the second question : I planned nothing against legendaries :lol: . In fact, i only met once a Golem and it is so powerful that i just go for the draw. Why ? because i think it's too powerful for the others units in play. It only costs 2 Skull warriors and, except for the movement, is much better as it kill the 2 in a breath.
I encountered a chimera twice and killed them without a real challenge (with wolfens and surely against beginners or not maxed build) and no worg. So I don't know legendaries enough to plan something against them.

For the first question, here's a new compo :

- 2 Necromancers - lvl 3 - Morbid Exp / Recovery = 77*2 = 154 AP
- 2 Gargoyles - lvl 3 - Elusive / Sneak Attack = 64*2 = 128 AP
- 2 Archers - lvl 2 - Ferocious = 40*2 = 80 AP
- 1 Warrior - lvl 2 - Hard-Boiled = 36 AP

But :cry: it's only a 398 compo. I could live with it, but it is really hard...

I am not really sure about the ferocious on the archers because it's a waste most of the time as you don't see legendaries that much and if so, i doubt my skellies live long enough to make him down.
I loose the Wave of Death but don't really know his effects so...

I will think therefore on a build that allows this spell. Maybe without the warrior ? as in turn 1 i should have 4 puppets, maybe it isn't that needed ? I would maybe keep it as an extra security ?

Hmm, lots of wondering out there. If only I shouldn't work, I could spend more time composing the next heavy metal skull team that will crush any living thing to an undead puppet :lol: .
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Deep Blue

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSat Mar 15, 2014 8:50 pm

uhm i could help you out with the build but you should tell me which kind of playstyle you prefer...it seems you like the necros and therefore you do not plan to win in the first few turns.

2 necros (or even 3 :P) are very good in general as you can block lot of choke points AND engage units, which in the dominion map is SUPER good.

Again i'll give you random advices that you might think/use to build your warband.

Death wave is a very good ability with an exception range (8!). It doesn't do well if your necro is not surrounded by living deads, which means that gargoyles are not counted and that you should aim for a defensive strategy with lot of cheap undeads (skeleton warriors + archers) to defend your nuker necro. Usually in this case 1 necromancer is fine. If you don't mind the zerg route, lot of skeleton warriors and archers + 1 nuker necro is a strong composition as you will be able (if well positioned) to one shot with 2x deathwaves. You have to be careful however as some maps really punish turtling strategies and a very fast paced , which is bad for you :D

You could go also for the puppet swarm (so using the necros as you want) but you should play offensively in my opinion as you have the gargoyles (do not attack with them unless the enemy is surrounded! if you do, use also sneak attack!). Putrefaction is also a nice spell, a bit risky but if you need to fill your AP i would go for that. -2 TOU each turn means that your puppets will hit harder!

Other nice sinergies are with the black paladin and somatic transfer -> making a puppet into a black paladin for 2 turns is pretty cool. If you go that route please use one hardboiled skeleton with martyr so that you can activate that skill at will, without the necessary enemies. Also exausting touch can be nice as it is a "legendary" killer + if a unit attacks one of your hardboiled skeletons it will deal...1 as damage :-p

i know ferocious sometimes feel "wrong" but it can be very valuable.
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Splagadou

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 9:57 am

My play style is about my conception of undeads :

You start on a side, go forward and reach the other side. Any thing that block the path has to be crush.

I admit i prefer a lot the puppet swarm which is for me way different than a zerg compo which doesn't fit with Dogs of War. Dogs is about having a company, not an army. Confrontation is for that. So I like a bit background, a real life for my units (which sounds strange talking about undeads).

For me, the necros are here to go right ahead, and when they see something, they call puppets to surround the enemy then deal with it. That's why I like the puppet explosion, not really the healing spell (even if I admit I used it a lot and that made me win).

That's the basic strategy and the first will.

Against good players, I have to adapt and for that, archers and not too precious units are I think a most versatile compo. Necros are frail, against a worg it would not be a so good idea I think (even if it seems to be the worst legendary). That's why I like adding one or two archers, just to shoot in the pack. Inside one of puppets, there surely be a future undead :).

And to counter the mobility : gargoyles. They attack indeed when they have the max chance to hit, even if it is not always possible, but sneak + offensive could make some troubles on anything that could strike my puppet hard enough to pursuit and, oh god no, reach the necro :'(.

So puppet wall to keep on enemies units and archers with necros to shoot from a safe distance. Gargoyle to strike back when there is an opening.

Maybe I will try the putrefaction. It appears as a good transcription of my undead style.

As I have read with a lot on interest a lot of your posts, and of others here like isg, dragon, or Vahire and Lima on the inside chat, I had a good idea of the possible compos. I have to say the paladins are for me so good looking I want to play with them but for now, i prefer decrease the enemy than enforcing my troups.

Maybe if my suggestion of buying units once for all is heard I could try it, otherwise I am not rich enough :) (i mean, 30 euros for a pack of units you're not even sure you will like in a beta game, come on :roll: ).

Anyway, thanks for helping, it is much appreciated and I will try this asap.

PS : If anyone else would like to help improving the compo, feel free.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 11:06 am

about buying units. Let me suggest you one thing...do not buy the pack. It is much better to buy that particular unit you need for cyans but only if it is lvl 4-5. Levelling a unit (any beside legendaries) up to level 3 is relatively quick. I think it takes less than 10 games. Level 4 and 5 (especially 5) are a different story. Luckly for you having more than 2 lvl 5 units is generally a bad idea.

i bought with cyans only the lvl 5 priest as i could not really bear the levelling. If your aim is to have necros at lvl 3 just do some games instead. Maybe you will get a beating but at least they get experience...and you can come back next week with a reset ladder. Keep in mind also that if you win 5 games ranked you will have some little amount of cyans which in the end might come handy ;-) .

What is very good is that units keep levelling even if you do not distribute their points...meaning that at some point you might find your lvl 3 necro with 2 additional points to distribute and you could decide to try it differently.

to get quick money i suggest you to log everyday (if you can of course) and simply send your units questing. I think i made a list somewhere which shows which unit is providing the best results for each quest. As your renown will increase you will have access to more quests and more ducats. I also unlocked with cyans 1 more company slot as you basically build it ONLY for questing - for instance units like sparkling and gargoyle are quite handy when it comes to questing. You dont need to spend extra money as you can just create from scratch a new company and benefit from those units.
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Vahire

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 11:11 am

Splagadou wrote:My play style is about my conception of undeads :

You start on a side, go forward and reach the other side. Any thing that block the path has to be crush.


If you want to play this way,try the skull warrior with a gargoyle.
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Splagadou

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 12:22 pm

Deep Blue => I see what you mean with missions and free company slot as I use it since my second day :). Unfortunately I am not 13 yet and can't try the super kidnapping mission :).

For the xp points, I figured that and train the team when I have time but I rather spend it trying new combinations at first. That is a good advice thought.

Vahire => I love skull warrior as the only fig that is missing my undead collection is The Great Crane (think I am the only one moreover).

But how ? in a 400 AP configuration I couldn't think about a viable compo as with my wolfen I destroyed (not just met, destroyed) every SW I saw. I could have had luck, but anyway, how could he really survive ? For one SW, you got so many archers, mages or whatever that could kill him from safe.

I don't understand the usage of the gargoyle though. Killing the units that annoys the SW for him to kill all others ? It won't work imo because they will be too little and the enemy could give away a unit just to block them and shoot from afar.

Maybe something like this ?

389 AP
- 1 Skull Warrior - lvl 4 - Hard-Boiled / Taunt / Implacable = 145 AP
- 2 Gargoyles - lvl 3 - Elusive / Sneak Attack = 64*2 = 128 AP
- 1 Necromancer - lvl 3 - Respite / Mastery = 76 AP
- 1 Archer - lvl 2 - Ferocious = 40 AP

or this ?

398 AP
- 1 Skull Warrior - lvl 4 - Hard-Boiled / Taunt / Implacable = 145 AP
- Gargoyle - lvl 4 - Elusive / Sneak Attack / Implacable = 70 AP
- 2 Necromancerq - lvl 3 - Respite / Mastery = 76*2 = 152 AP
- 1 Archer lvl 1 = 31 AP
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Deep Blue

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 12:40 pm

uhm for some reason i managed to delete my message :D im a bit lazy and i will just re-write it in short points:

-i would go for the first choice
-you have to decide where you want to compete: top 10? top 100? 5 victories per week is ok?
-implacable is very good BUT hard to setup. If it works is awesome though.
-as a general rule dont spend too many AP on one unit as they can be always killed quickly by some caster or controlled (the reason why i dont like legendaries).
-use Hod's army build calculator :-) there is a link on the general forum
- No player (myself included) will ever agree with your build...the best way is test it! ;-) if your units are not totally levelled you can always fill the gaps with some skeleton warrior/archers.
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Vahire

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Re: Undead version of mobility

PostSun Mar 16, 2014 1:03 pm

Lvl 3 with taunt is enought for the skull in this patch.He will fear ennemys 80% of the time so you will deal around 19-20 damages to basic units.

I think 2 gargoyles is too much if you already have a skull,try with only 1.I think you must have a lvl 2 archer with ferocious to handle most of the elite/legendary.
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