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Some suggestions to bring players back

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ShadowChapel

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Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 1:50 am

So there are some great things about Dogs of War Online and some not so great. I feel like the game has been balanced a bit more then it was before, but some of the problems with the overall setup are still there.

There should be more reasons to farm for Ducats, but it also shouldn't be quite the pain in the butt that it has been.
Possibly add some fluff into the mix, like you could buy armor and unique looking weapons for your units (these should probably not increase the stats in any way, unless you found out a way to balance it using the AP system which wouldn't be too hard).

Add some campaign missions, I know it's "Dogs of War Online" but there should really be some kind of solo play. Especially with this type of game, you really can't go wrong. It would also benefit the newer players coming in (and even the veteran players). But also to bring us back to the Ducats.... don't give the player 10 for spending time doing them, that isn't the point.

Balance out unit choice, it is no fun seeing an army entirely made up out of Gargoyles and such style of armies. Try to get a limiter on it, that way there is more fluff to each of the armies. An example of this would be the limiters set in Warhammer 40k, allowing only 3 of one type of unit aside from troops (in most cases). (also this one is more of an opinion which I think would make the game more fun and not really a make or break for the game)

You want players to pay for your game? Don't make them buy silly things for 10 bucks. More and more games are being made to try to pump every little dollar out of players, yet League of Legends makes money like holy wow, because of how much fun the players have while playing it, ergo they want to spend money on it. They don't make you buy something to get ahead earlier. You can, but not a lot of players do that, they buy the different skins for each champion. Farming 60,000 ducats (especially right now with the few amount of players that are on) is a daunting task for any new player. The random rotating champion bit is nice though. Keep that

Add more champions! Give the armies some more personality to them, I would daresay add more types of troops as well. But balancing can be an issue. (as it is in most games, not a big deal, just work on it and get it squared away).

The mission system is nice, but in it's current state (at least for me anyways) I have a 1% chance to complete most of the missions with a regular troop, and the rewards just don't seem that great :/
I really enjoy the mission bit, I like being able to accomplish something while I am not online. But make it worthwhile.

Not sure how I feel about your commands being tied to your champion now. Especially when you have a champion like Ryskar who is a kind of in the thick of it commander who will attract a bit of attention, compared to Silienne. (who when played correctly is an absolute monster and relatively safe) You have a bit of a stretch in balance in terms of the commands.

Possibly add more commands, not really sure how you would, I haven't given this one much thought, but it would be nice in the long run to have more options. Even a customizable set of commands would be nice I think.

When it comes to setting up your army, sometimes it can make or break the game. I suggest a rotating deployment that you can see. So with both players there would be your strategy roll to see who could decide who puts down a unit or two first. Then the other person would have to respond. You could even keep the current deployment state for another gametype. But for balancing issues, I think that this one is slightly overlooked.

Varying levels of health. The Wolfen are the few but strong army, yet the same amount of health. I think this is a little silly. You have champions with more health, I would add troops with more health as well. There are obviously numerous ways to balance this out.

The points I would hit on now, are releasing some new armies for people to play with. And give them something to do. (I'm telling ya solo missions, and/or an intensive campaign would do this game wonders, and bring some players back to see what's going on)

Just my two cents.
Feel free to contact me if need be.
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chimeraelite

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 3:58 pm

To address some of your suggestions:

I totally agree with the farming for ducats, as I find it extremely aggravating. I think it would be good if they started to implement the quest system that's already mostly there. Play a certain number of games a day and get money. Kill and certain number of units a day and get ducats. Something like that.

To address the problem of only allowing a certain number of units in any one army, I say NO. The whole point of the game is to create your own army, regardless how silly it is. While I do agree that it would be nice to have wider army variety, forcing a player to do it is not the way to go. I think if someone did try to make an army made up of all gargoyles, they would be promptly stomped into the ground if they ran into someone who actually knew what they were doing.

At the moment, allowing you to give your units different weapons and armor and such probably isn't a good idea, as balancing is still not final with there still being 6 more armies in the works. I would however LOVE it if they made each of the tiers of units visually different. Say the tier 2 fang warrior with a sword/shield combo, because he's tankier than his tier 1 and 3 counterparts.

I would absoolutely love a story or a campaign to go through, especially if it outlines the plight of each of the races. Going a little bit further, co-op would also be a very good idea, as there are some people who have friends who are kinda scared to get into the game. Having co-op would allow you to not only show your buddy the ropes, but also get practice.

I think that the fact that the tier 3 champion being 60k is worth it and wouldn't be such a problem if daily quests were a thing, and farming wasn't a problem. Fixing that problem would quite easily solve many others.

Right now, adding more champions isn't something that should really be high on their priority list. Getting out new armies and balancing them could be better. I would like new champions, but along with that, balancing the current units and bringing those that people never use back to the forefront. (Example: the wolfen hunters)

I think that tying the commands to the champion is "ok," but having it the same for everyone is also a little bit dangerous. Maybe giving each race a set of different commands to choose from and then letting the players pick from them would be better, only keeping the exlixir commands tied to the champions. Of course this opens up more opportunity for finding something over powered, but oh well.

As a primarily Wolfen player, I'm mostly fine with the way the health system works out. Adjusting hp just opens up so many more problems with balancing, and toughness pretty much already covers it.

Other than that, I don't think there's anything else that really needs to be changed, added or improved with the game.
Temper your aggression with strategy and you will be unstoppable. Fight with reckless abandon and you will be slaughtered.
Ign- Chimeraelite
Youtube Channel- Chimeraelite1
All criticisms are welcome. Just trying to start a dialogue on the game.
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ShadowChapel

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 6:47 pm

So for the most part we agree, that is good to know that someone else thinks like I do.
When it came to the last one, I wasn't even thinking about toughness to be honest. So definitely in that aspect you are correct. Adding on health would be silly (at least in this stage of the game anyways, maybe in a way way future update or game finalization).

I do like the Elixer commands that are individually tied to champions. I definitely agree with you there. But when it comes to all of your commands, if your champion gets killed on turn one with a lucky arrow or something... well all those commands you have (had) are worthless. Most often these skills when used correctly can turn the tied of the fight. I just think that there should be a more guaranteed way of using them rather then having to protect my front-lining commander. Of course there is always the risk of coming across something overpowered. But that happens in every game, the designers just have to keep up with it.

Some of these that I touched base on, like adding new champions are something that really aren't important for right now. Just more of something to hit eventually.

The co-op idea you threw out there I really like. That would really add to overall feel of the game in the long run. I think that even a 2 v 2 type of gametype would be amazing (way future update).

You actually agreed with me on the weapons and armor bits. Although what you are saying is that the Fang Warriors should look different from the Wolfen Reapers, while what I said was just pretty much being able to customize them yourself with no stats tied to them. So you could have a sword and board fang warrior and a flail and board fang warrior as well.
What I was talking about with the stats tied to them was a possible way of dealing with some of the balance issues. This is also under the assumption that they couldn't do so with the stats.

I currently only play Wolfen. I don't really care for the other races. I used to play Grey Knights in Warhammer 40k way back when so I feel more comfortable with a few but strong army over the others. I definitely disagree with most of what people say when they fight against Wolfen and call them overpowered, I feel like at times they can be, but so can other armies as well. I think the most trouble I have had against fighting any particular army is the Necros by far. The people I have fought against definitely seemed to have a firm grasp on how to play the game. (But I also really hate the constant spawning of minions I will admit)

As for the last statement I disagree with you in the most polite way possible. Most games always could use with adding something here and there. It gives the developers something to do, and if they actually care about their product (or just the customer in general) they continue to pump out content and keep updating, and receiving info from the "right" players. I say "right" because way too often game designers listen to people that suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect, which results in an improper balance of gameplay, which can lead to a steady decline of players.
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chimeraelite

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 7:52 pm

I think you might have misunderstood that last part, or I just didn't word it well enough. (I was kinda in a rush, as I had class :? ) I'm all for the devs adding things as time goes on, past what I said, it's just that some things have to take priority over others. I think on another post somewhere in the forums, I mention that if they get burned out doing something, then they can just hop onto something else and give themselves a breather. I guess what I was trying to say was that the things that were listed so far there, or that are in the game right now (champions and units) are important, but simply adding another champion right now, or adding another unit wouldn't really bring back a lot of players. Sure, it would be interesting to see the new unit in play, but it's still the same old playstyle. Adding a new race would bring lots of people back considering that it's something totaly fresh.

Anyway, yea, my bad about that last statement, it really wasn't necessary. :oops:
Temper your aggression with strategy and you will be unstoppable. Fight with reckless abandon and you will be slaughtered.
Ign- Chimeraelite
Youtube Channel- Chimeraelite1
All criticisms are welcome. Just trying to start a dialogue on the game.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Wolfen have one OP unit (Guardian of Equilibrium). In general Wolfen suffer because all of their other ranged units suck so hard right now. Either they are too expensive of just not effective enough to carry out the role they were given. This means Champions like Melmoth, Kerberos and Arinius just sweep the Wolfen with little to no effort unless they use groups of 2-3 of said OP unit. I too am a big Wolfen player but i'm just bored of playing them right now so i've been playing the other two armies a bit more. I also personally feel that Wolfen suffer on the account that all of the advantages are in armies clumping together and one of Wolfen's specalities use to be picking off enemy units that were seperated from the host army or pushing past enemy lines to the opponent's vulnerable units.

The Wolfen are only on top at the moment purely because of the Guardian of Equilibrium otherwise they would be at rock bottom. (I'll comment some more later)
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ShadowChapel

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 10:17 pm

The Guardian of equilibrium? Is it because he is a warrior monk, so he can shoot and he can attack in close combat? I haven't used them a whole lot. If you had to balance it out, what would you do?
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 10:25 pm

ShadowChapel wrote:The Guardian of equilibrium? Is it because he is a warrior monk, so he can shoot and he can attack in close combat? I haven't used them a whole lot. If you had to balance it out, what would you do?


Thats part of it, They can also block all spell casts from Lion and Ram units within 8 hexagons. They are 65 ap, 6 ap more than the cheapest Crossbowman. They have good dodge, parry and toughness. They don't require to wait on mana and they very rarely fail to cast Hymn of Destiny and it's range is very modest. They are just too good at everything for 65 ap. The way Faith works doesn't punish them enough when they move in groups like they do.
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ShadowChapel

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 10:33 pm

That does sound like it might need to be balanced a bit, but I do remember passing by it and thinking that I would rather have one of those than any of the archers for wolfen right now. But my current list is a Devotee of Yllia, 2 Fang Warriors, a Wolfen Enchanter, and Rampart of the Graves. I like to go with the champion Ryskar right now. But I see a lot of potential behind Emerok with a little tweaking to the team.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostMon Oct 06, 2014 10:41 pm

ShadowChapel wrote:That does sound like it might need to be balanced a bit, but I do remember passing by it and thinking that I would rather have one of those than any of the archers for wolfen right now. But my current list is a Devotee of Yllia, 2 Fang Warriors, a Wolfen Enchanter, and Rampart of the Graves. I like to go with the champion Ryskar right now. But I see a lot of potential behind Emerok with a little tweaking to the team.


They work just as well with Ryskar as with Emerok as well. Since they can soften enemy units so Ryskar can smash through with his elixir skill or so Emerok can spread the hurt with Chant of Fate. Thats why i say Wolfen are boring right now.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Some suggestions to bring players back

PostWed Oct 08, 2014 12:38 pm

The game needs more transparency like for example Mortal Insolence could use a special effect like Ring of Ice has. The main menu probably could be easier to navigate than it is now for example i didn't realise i could click on my own name for a while and i've had to explain how to add friends before. I think War of Omens is a good example of free to play along the lines of what Dogs of War is trying to be right now. Single player vs AI with multiple difficulties, Slowly expanding Solo Campaign, and PVP mode. All pulled together by a Quest system that incentivises you to play a bit of everything. Support that with active squashing of bugs/server issues, new content additions and that would hopefully keep the momentum going.

The game needs to become less predictable in the sense of what army your up against, what map your going to be on etc. It's too easy to formulate the exact moves and deployments you need to make to win most matches right now which is probably not helped by the imbalances in the units. Removal of/changes to randomness you have very little ability to effect such as Kill Outright on every unit so you don't get ridiculousness like exceptionally weak units one shotting units they didn't have a hope of beating otherwise.

Other things like co-op and co-op pvp would be nice but i can accept that we may need to wait till the game can build up a stable playerbase.

Edit: Oh and on the unit limit perhaps a mutiple of the same unit ap cost increase would work, a cost for the synergy you gain by having multiple of the same unit in your army. Say a 10-20% AP bump rounded up for each additional copy you put into your army. You still have the option to run multiple of the same unit but it will cost you.
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