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Redesign Lion from the ground up

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MhBlis

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Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostMon May 19, 2014 11:24 pm

So with the announced changes coming this is the perfect opportunity for us the testers to re-balance the factions. We can also help build some interesting profiles that will give us unique options.
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MhBlis

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostTue May 20, 2014 12:05 am

Swordsmen of the Lion.

I personally think a cannon fodder option, a defensive option and a more offensive option would make for nice variety and each would have a place.

Cannon Fodder:
* Reduced AP cost vs the other swordsmen say 75%
* -1 to all the current stats across the board perhaps even -2 for parry.
* 30-35HP
* New skill "Strength in numbers"
For each other each other Lion human unit surrounding the target the swordsmen gains +1 will and toughness.

This makes it a cheap unit to fill out the ranks but that can still be useful in big numbers.

Defensive:
* Increased Parry, Dodge and Toughness over the current stats.
* Reduced accuracy and damage
* A combined version of the current Vivacity and Parry skill or the Survival Instinct skill
* Taunt skill.

This is a unit that won't deal a lot of damage but will stand and function like a nice defensive unit. It also plays more towards the look of the model's big shield.

Assault:
* Increased Toughness and Damage stat by +1 possibly 2 for toughness.
* Current Fanaticism or Fencer skill
* For the Light skill but with a -3 to 5 Parry and Dodge penalty rather than 0 Toughness.

This unit can now go out an deal damage but is still easily dealt with. Similar to what the Wolf Fang is now.

Bowmen of the Lion
For this unit I would like to see a an accurate shooter,a high volume shooter and perhaps a scout type.

Accurate
* -1 Dam or leave as is if you feel it is balanced
* an Activated version of the current Accuracy skill that does what its name says and actually adds to the units Accuracy stat based on distance. +2 for Orange distance and +1 for Green distance.
* Current Aim skill.

This is unit that can hit accurately at range or deal one big shot.

Volume
AP reduction to 90%
* -1 Dam or leave as is if you feel it is balanced
* -1-2 Accuracy
* Double shot but with only -4 accuracy penalty and allows you individually target your shots.

They may not be as accurate but they can output far more shots.

Scout
* -1-2 Dam
* Reduced Accuracy 1-3
* A combination of Instinctive firing and sharpshooter called shot on the run. Reduced move and and shooting over cover penalties.
* Harassment stance

This gives you a unit that can harass the flanks and give you some more strategic options.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostTue May 20, 2014 6:16 am

Cannon Fodder:
* Reduced AP cost vs the other swordsmen say 75%
* -1 to all the current stats across the board perhaps even -2 for parry.
* 30-35HP
* New skill "Strength in numbers"
For each other each other Lion human unit surrounding the target the swordsmen gains +1 will and toughness

The whole idea of game mechanics work around the fact that all units have 40hp... even the puppets
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostTue May 20, 2014 7:04 am

I get that but to be honest HP is such a useful balancing tool that not using it really limits your options. Also there is nothing stopping them from using 40 HP just means you need to tweak the other defensive stats further down.

So any suggestions for other units.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostTue May 20, 2014 9:40 am

I get that but to be honest HP is such a useful balancing tool that not using it really limits your options.

Current HP mechanics are best possible interpretation of 3 wounds mechanics crom oryginal game. So anoone would mess with hp - will also mess with wounds. Huge models had 1-3 additional wouns but there was nothing like units with less wounds. Even cheapest skelletons, kelts and goblins below 10ap all had normal wound-dying mechanics (even if their Tou stat was sometimes lower than 3 ;) )

edit
about all other units - you propose totally new units/skills that never been tested - after no confirmation from the devs that next patch will use this 3 (heavy modified) build per unit mechanics :P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostTue May 20, 2014 9:48 pm

Yes what I posted is all new. Though I've posted one new skill the rest are actually just renamed versions or amalgamations of what is already in the game. The prime example is "Accuracy" why is it giving a damage bonus when by the name it shoot make you better at hitting a target. Sharpshooter, Compound Bow, Strong in the arm would all be better names.

The three new profiles is what they said they are moving to so why not have the community give their input into what they think would be good, what they want to see from the system. So far you have done nothing but shoot down ideas instead of giving your own. This is a beta this is the time you should step up and post the ideas to help the devs. So I ask either discuss directly the issues you have or post your own options. Ideally though a dev would weigh in here to actually give us some guidance but until that happens laying out ideas for them can only help.

Also changing HP in no way changes the three wound system at all. As long as you make the minimum HP 30-35 or hell you could make the wounds apply at a % of health which as used everywhere else is actually the better use of the system. HP is a great balancing tool and because we have a PC game rather than a board game we can use fancy math tools in the back end.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Redesign Lion from the ground up

PostThu May 22, 2014 4:09 pm

The strength in numbers ability is what strikes me at the moment. The problem with an ability like that is that it could be really overly powerful for an opponent to come up against or very easy to take advantage of. I'm sure what you would see is alot of players with massive clumps of soldiers and marching them in turtle formation.

One idea comes to my mind would be to have the valkyrie play a part. I'm not sure about a name but say you have an ability the swordsmen can use that takes faith points from a nearby Valkyrie. So they can provide the valkyrie faithpoints by being there or use up her excess faith points and give the Valkyrie a bit more use outside of archer buffing.

Edit:
Or maybe a pair up ability where either unit will counter attack with another unit if the attacking enemy is within their attack range. I would imagine that would work quite well along side a taunt user and provide some control over your opponent's movement.

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