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AP too high for higher lvl troops.

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AmonSavag

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:39 am

AP too high for higher lvl troops.

PostFri May 16, 2014 3:46 pm

Plain and simple there's absolutely no reason to lvl up your troops. My army used to have all these fancy paladins and skull warriors and necros and priests of whatever ridiculous lvl that I could get them to. Then I played against CWJacksonville. This guy never loses. What's his secret? lvl 1 troops of the most basic type. Works every time for his Human army, so I'm like "Wut? This is what he's winning with? 3 lions, a couple archers and a horde of footmen? All lvl 1?" So I try it myself with the undead. 2 lvl 1 necros, 2 lvl 1 gargs, 2 lvl 1 archers, and the rest warriors. (Ends up being all but 400 pts). My win rate shoots through the roof and I feel like a complete idiot for lvling up my troops and using advanced units. Now I'm on the verge of dropping the game tbh, because there's no real fun in lvling up my guys and getting bigger units because I understand that it will be a waste of pts. Even the golds that I can win from getting top 10 (By using just basic lvl 1 units) will just be used to get bigger or higher lvl troops which are overpriced when you consider that you can have 3 skull warriors for roughly the price of 1 paladin. You can have 2 lvl 1 necros and thus divide your risk in that regard or have 1 lvl 3 necro who can die twice as easily as if you had 2 necros.

1 skull warrior is almost 5 skeletons warriors. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!? It's not slightly balanced. There is no way in the entire world that 5 skeleton warriors could lose to 1 skull warrior. If you want to lvl up your skull warrior even once, you're talking about almost an entire skeleton warrior worth of pts just get aquire taun. At that point it still projects way less power than 5 skeleton warriors.

The Humans have the same problem with their Knight of the Lion. Why would you get 1 knight of the lion for the cost of 3 footmen? The 3 footmen have more projection power, more attacks, more HP, more targets to engage on for point interdiction on KoTH, higher ability to flank and thus handicap an opponent. Not balanced. Grave Guard same problem for wolves. You spend all these silver coins to get these bad ass units, and then you realise the first time that you go into battle with it that your enemy's horde of lvl1 basics is obviously much more dangerous than your overpriced unit that you worked so hard to get (Or even bought with real moneys)

Once again to the problem of lvling up units. If we are encouraged to lvl up our units, why increase the AP value of said units by so much? You destroy the value of these lvls when the cost outweighs the benefits. Let's talk about the skull warrior again. lvl 2 or extra skeleton warrior? NO BRAINER EXTRA SKELETON WARRIOR PLZ.

In short. The basic lvl 1 units are too economic. Pound for pound it is by far better to have more of your most basic units AT LVL 1 than to have either more advanced units or higher lvl units. Some rebalancing really needs to be done with the AP cost of the more advanced units and the lvls of units so that they're viable against these armies of basic troops. The only way to do that is to decrease the AP value of lvling up your units and fielding more advanced units. If this was done consistently across the board for every race then it would be balanced. The basic lvl 1 units for each faction seem balanced well enough.

Your objection might be "If we allow lvled up units to cost less, they'll be imbalanced in regards to the lvl 1 unit of that type". My response would be OF COURSE! THAT'S WHY I PLANTED MY ASS IN THIS SEAT FOR 50 HOURS GETTING THIS NECROMANCER TO LVL 5! Excuse me if I think that my time invested into the development of my guys has a value in and of itself that under the current system is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE! lvl 5 necro or 4 lvl 1 warriors (Or 3 lvl 1 human or 2 lvl 1 wolf warriors)?! Guess which one wins the fight!

Please Balance this for me so I can play the game with cool units at higher lvls.

Anyone wanting to challenge this, please go and try for yourself an army of basic lvl 1 units and watch as the ignorant players with their high lvl fancy troops get swallowed time and time again.
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Deuzerre

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  • Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: AP too high for higher lvl troops.

PostFri May 16, 2014 4:09 pm

You may want to go look at the news section. They'll be revamping the game

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2946
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Astralwyrm

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  • Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:09 pm

Re: AP too high for higher lvl troops.

PostSat May 17, 2014 12:22 am

I sat down and had a look at wolfen when it comes to this kind of tactic and i'm not convinced it will work so well for them in that wolfen can only have 5 fangs at maximum. The unit cost itself is quite high as well where as many abilities are relatively cheap until you start going beyound level 2. On top of that wolfen basics have some very economical abilities like ruthless and instinctive firing. I basically ended up with a group of 7 level 2 units with the exception of 1 level 1 fang to stay within the ap limit; their level 2 abilities are so economical i couldn't find it in me to sacrifice them. The higher level you go though i'll agree that it becomes very costly, a high level POB can tear things up but also he can go down alot more easily than multiple fangs.

Level 2 Guardian - Hymn of Destiny.
level 2 Wolfen with Crossbow - Instinctive Firing.
level 2 Wolfen Fangs x 4 - Ruthless.
Level 1 Wolfen Fang

I'm gonna go test them out now. This setup is only 1 more wolfen than what i usually use so i don't expect anything super to happen. edit: or i would if 400 ap battles would actually load, guess everyone's waiting till next week or further. Managed to do a 250 ap battle... that does it i swear never again am i going to double scatter into my own unit. -.- I think i would rather have a level 3 fang with mighty blow than herassment i just can't find it useful enough and then it does something like double shotting my own unit and basically i've lost when that happens. A level 3 Mighty blow fang can 3 hit a lot of things so i know it can be useful.
Last edited by Astralwyrm on Sat May 17, 2014 1:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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MhBlis

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Re: AP too high for higher lvl troops.

PostSat May 17, 2014 12:59 am

This is actually a result from the previous patch the whole meta shifted to a the swarm army. The problem stems from the way the mechanics work combined with some balance adjustments.

As a side note I'm 3 and 2 vs Jackson with my Leveled lion army.
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DeathsAdvocate

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  • Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 12:10 am

Re: AP too high for higher lvl troops.

PostSat May 17, 2014 6:26 am

While this game certainly has a zerg meta, especially with humans there are strong elite builds but they are trickier to build and play, and tend to need to be tailored to both the map, the mode, and the faction your against.

Zerg tactics are strong, and work well versus everything in every mode, but I assure you there are very strong elite unit builds. I took number one last week using two paladins, two warriors and a priest as it crushed ram and wolven zerg tactics. It did loose to human archer builds on the open maps and I had to change to gargoyle zerg tactics on that particular match up but it would still beat them on the heavy wall maps.

Wolves really love their high level elite units as they can tear through anywhere between one and three level one units by abusing their extra attacks and pursuit movements. And humans have devastating elite aoe mage builds that pretty much directly counter zerg builds.

And that was just talking about deathmatch, take the other two modes into account Vips are very vulnerable to elite assassinations, and koh point gain is based on the units ap. Zerg is the meta, but it by no means is the only viable way, its just the easiest aka the meta.

And lastly the game is going to be completely overhauled within a few months anyways, it makes me a little sad but their plans are promising.

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