Give Tore Than Just Renown for Private V.S. Games

So I downloaded this game a few days ago, and I've had a fair amount of fun, but there really needs to be some sort of reward beyond renown for playing against your friends.

I brought my father into the game because he loves this type of game, and I play because I was into Warhammer 40k. We really enjoy playing against each other. When we play together we play for hours, that's how we've always played games together.

Unfortunately because there are no rewards for playing against your friends, its very likely that soon my father will stop playing the game. He doesn't have any interest in playing the single player scenarios, and at the moment he has little interest in playing "ranked". This means that he only plays ranked so that he can keep his company's AP right around mine, and there doesn't appear to be a way to not use your full company against someone. Additionally, our games will basically never vary because of the inability to put AP limits on these V.S. games. Not to mention the fact that it really doesn't feel very good to not be making progress at all.

I understand that there are some issues with allowing us to gain rewards via these V.S. games (such as grinding an account up on just pure wins) but if you were to make the gains equal just a bit less than a loss of a ranked game (regardless of win or loss) it wouldn't be as efficient for people to do it as it would to play a randomly matched game so it'd discourage doing it for that reason (and partially discourage boting).

So I guess in the end I have two suggestions:

1. Allow us to impose AP limits on private V.S. games.
And:
2. Give rewards for Private V.S. games, even if small (like 3/4ths of a ranked game's loss values) to both parties involved.

And for the record, I'm 22, and my father is 41, we're just a bit strange and connect and bond over video games.

Since I think that a "reward in private games"-system can be heavily abused and would ruin the game in the long term, I am against rewards in that matter. But on the other hand, it would be nice to be able to field any amounts in AP and any units for free. After all, it is just a friendly game and the rules should depend on what both opponents can agree on.

So, for example, both players decide to stage a match in the 400 AP bracket, each of them should be able to field temporary units which disband after the match. You could build an army of your own needs just for that match, level them as you see fit and enter the fray. After the battle is over, any unit you created this way is gone for good.

So you would build your own army list any time you enter a private VS-match.

As for the matter of not having any progression - I would suggest to develop a ranked 2v2 mode ASAP, so that both players can play coop vs 2 other guys and retain their company, just like in normal 1v1 matches.
Or at least make 2 vs AI possible (and viable).

[Jigoku]

Welcome to our forums, and thanks for your suggestions.

However, like Spawnferkel said, the "friendly match" can really be heavily abused, so it is not likely that we will offer more rewards for friendly modes in the near future.
This could change one day, but it really is not in our priority list right now.

On a more positive note, we aim to rework the way we present the GUI of the friendly matches, most likely to include them in the Play page and offer the possibility to set AP for them, and select your mercenaries for the matches.
You won't, however, be able to have instant free access to any unit and level them as you see fit like Spawnferkel suggested - you will have to use your own men.

If I can suggest something, maybe you could save one Company slot for the matches that you want to share with your father, and do not play it in matchmaking, so that you will always be on par with his level?
It would allow you to select from the 9 beginning rosters from the start at every match (as well as your father, I guess), allowing for more diversified matchs.

You won't, however, be able to have instant free access to any unit and level them as you see fit like Spawnferkel suggested - you will have to use your own men.

For what it's worth, I would happily pay a decent chunk of real money for this ability.

I don't get much of a kick out of fighting random people on the interwebs; I'd rather play with my friends. And I'd rather not have to play (i.e. fight random people on the interwebs) for dozens of hours to build the list I want, or spend more in RMT each time I want to tweak my list.

The worst part of tabletop wargaming - the thing that keeps many people out - was the expense. Having to buy dozens of models to play the game, and having to buy new ones to try out new lists, was a barrier to enjoyment for many people. Obviously wargaming companies couldn't give away their models for free, BUT computer gaming allows us to circumvent this. Why not take advantage of such an opportunity? Why cleave to an old system?

I honestly believe that online wargaming could have huge potential. But forcing people through a treadmill of microtransactions and grinding is going to dull the appeal significantly.

[Bousk]

Hi,

all units can be bought with Cyans, without needed to get the renown showed on them in store.
Plus, leveled units can be bought directly, with Cyans only.

Friendly games have been fixed and you no more suffer from injuries from them. Your units won't get xp neither.
But you win a few amount of renown and Ducats.

That's may not really be what you're asking for, but could deal with your wish of

For what it's worth, I would happily pay a decent chunk of real money for this ability.

Unfortunately not.

In the real world, I have to pay for a Predator. If I want another, I have to buy another. In fact I own, like, seven. But when the weekly Game Night comes, if I want to change my list around (say, run Red Oaks instead of Throne of Stars), I don't have to pay more money for new Preds. I don't have to send a few dollars to Jean Bey for the privilege of binding them to a new pack. Instead, I just add or subtract a few AP from my total. If I want to run a list with a dozen Fangs, my seven Preds don't disappear. They just sit on the shelf awhile.

If I want a Pred in your game, I have to buy one (money or time; I do freelance writing and editing so these are pretty fungible). If I want another Pred, I have to buy another. So far, it's the same as on the tabletop. But now - this is the important part - if I want to change my Lv 4 Pred into a Lv 2 Pred (or vice versa), I have to pay. If I have eight slots filled in my company, and I want to get more units, I have to destroy some that already exist. I can't put units on the shelf.

This is silly.

I cannot play the list I want, or change my list around, without dropping tons of time or several dollars. That sounds like either WORK, or like an old-fashioned arcade game, where I have to slot a quarter every time I want to have fun. Neither are appealing ways to spend my leisure.

Instead of paying several hours or several dollars every time I want to tweak a list or start up a new one ... why can't I just pay $30 or $40 flat, and have as many POBs (and Fangs, Hunters, Crossbows, Gargoyles, Valks, War Lions, and Flesh Golems, etc) as I want, forever, with the ability to set them to whatever level I like?

In other words, why can't I have all the advantages of the tabletop game, with a few others on top? Because that sounds pretty awesome. All the fun of the tabletop game, without the hassle of setup, mathematics, or having to spend hundreds of dollars on models? Playing Confrontation in the comfort of my own home, with a friend on the other side of the country? Damn skippy, I'd pay for that. Take my money.

Provided the gameplay is balanced and I'm still restricted by the same parameters (>=5 Fangs active, only 1 Worg, etc), this wouldn't provide any unfair advantage. Make this kind of gameplay unranked, if it bothers everyone.

As a game company, you want a steady stream of revenue. Fine. Deliver more content. Charge me for aesthetic upgrades - I'll certainly pay if I like the game enough. Put new factions behind paywalls for $7.99 a pop. You could even charge me a dollar or two to enter tournaments.

See, I like your game. Let me actually play it and you'll get $80-$100+, easily.

Keep things as they are, and you won't see a dime. It's just too frustrating, deleting companies or units I've spent hours on when I want to try something else.

There are others like me. I couldn't tell you how many, but I know of at least one friend who took a look, said "I suppose I get to start having fun after spending a couple hundred hours", and decided he had better things to do with his time.


TL;DR: drop the F2P model; charge a flat rate for access to everything needed to play the game (free units and free respeccing); keep aesthetic tweaks and new factions as RMTs. Or at least include this as an option somewhere. Your game is good and the theme is delicious; turn-based strategy buffs would flock to this like moths to the flame if the financial aspect wasn't a headache. Ya'll could be one of those indie success stories. I'd love it.

Instead of paying several hours or a several dollars every time I want to tweak a list or start up a new one ... why can't I just pay $30 or $40 flat, and have as many POBs (and Fangs, Hunters, Crossbows, Gargoyles, Valks, War Lions, and Flesh Golems, etc) as I want, forever, with the ability to set them to whatever level I like?

In other words, why can't I have all the advantages of the tabletop game, with a few others on top? Because that sounds pretty awesome. All the fun of the tabletop game, without the hassle of setup, mathematics, or having to spend hundreds of dollars on models? Playing Confrontation in the comfort of my own home, with a friend on the other side of the country? Damn skippy, I'd pay for that. Take my money.

[...]

TL;DR: drop the F2P model; charge a flat rate for access to everything needed to play the game (free units and free respeccing); keep aesthetic tweaks and new factions as RMTs. Or at least include this as an option somewhere.

Edit: After re-reading Serdaks post, I want to emphasize that my idea of all the free units is limited to arranged friendly matches. The "grind" in ranked plays is part of the fun of the journey in this game.

This is exactly my point. After all, the possibility to play any unit you like should be limited to friends-only game with NO rewards. That way, you can test new lists and units without worrying about company management as is.

If I get an idea how certain units perform with certain build and in certain combinations, I will be much more inclined in throwing money at the screen, since I can evaluate the quality of the revenue I get for my money. As of now, it is more or less buying a bag of snakes in hope of grabbing the one eel within, because I cannot check how good any unit performs beforehand.

And another big thing is that you can get even more people interested if they can try out all new units and get a feel for what they would like and what not. They dont have to grind through ranked games to find a play-style they like. This in return would lead (at least in my opinion) to more players actually purchasing units and feeling good about it, which results in a higher revenue for Cyanide.

Incentives for ranked play (where the real game takes places) are already announced (weekly cyans depending on rank on ladder sounds very promising) and I think you can even have more incentives for ranked games, so more players will flock to this game mode and start spending money.

I am very curious about things to come, and I want to say that Cyanide is currently doing a great job in terms of game development and community interaction, so I am not too worried about possible screw-ups and stuff.

Edit: After re-reading Serdaks post, I want to emphasize that my idea of all the free units is limited to arranged friendly matches. The "grind" in ranked plays is part of the fun of the journey in this game.

Suit yourself. I hate grind and I hate paying to skip grind. I wouldn't mind seeing my company blossom like a beautiful flower if it was some kind of external optimization challenge - if I had only two weeks, or only 100 games, to make the best company I could (cool idea for a tourney/campaign there). Otherwise it feels like work, and I do not like to spend my leisure hours working. I prefer to have fun.

This is exactly my point. After all, the possibility to play any unit you like should be limited to friends-only game with NO rewards. That way, you can test new lists and units without worrying about company management as is.

I have little interest in playing with people who aren't my friends, but I see no reason why unranked "free-play" test games should be restricted to one's friends.

Rewards, psh. I couldn't care less. The whole rewards system (ducats, cyans, reputation and all, and the ranking that goes with them) should be a subgame.

You know, like Dogs of War was a subgame for Confrontation.

Yeah, you shouldn't be restricted to play vs players in your friends list.

What I envisioned was some sort of match browser, where you can host a session, set up some rules and decide if anybody could join or just friends - like in all/most current multiplayer games.

And about purchasing everything from the start... why not. Cyanide could also offer booster packs with certain units if you dont want to eat the whole banana, so there would be more selection that aspect.

And about Dogs of War being a subgame of confrontation - well, you certainly needed the basic rules, but the idea behind companies was to provide a whole new feeling to the confrontation franchise (same with Rag'narok and Hybrid). One could definitely enjoy DoW without ever playing default 400 AP matches.

You know, the most recent patch is a perfect example of what I mean.

For various reasons, the Wolfen lists I was working towards are no longer viable. I'm not super happy about it (seems like a lot of homogenization. Blech), but I understand; balance changes come and go and I had fun while they lasted.

I'd like to try something completely different. Perhaps even start a new company altogether. And doing that would mean deleting several units or a whole company to make room. That represents a loss of a great deal of time (in the form of ducat earnings and XP grinding). Had I bought these units with dollars, it would mean throwing away a decent chunk of money. If I could access units for free and level them instantly, at least I'd be able to make a new company without having lost anything; but that's not the case. All I have to look forward to is another long slog towards the list I want, another 20 hours of grind.

After thinking it over, I just logged out with a sour taste in my mouth. Yes, this is beta, etc, but it's not the loss of my lists that stings, per se: it's the knowledge that, were I to play the game more (even after beta!), there will still be balance patches. I'm almost certain to feel this kind of loss again and again.

That's not fun.