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Killed Outright

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mrtcrazyfoo

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Killed Outright

PostSat Jun 21, 2014 9:36 pm

This game was good before. The new mode is also good (though it has its flaws as well). However, the new killed outright rule, combined with the new mode is ridiculous. Champions should be exempt, as there is no fun in having a close game or one where you're winning handily suddenly come to an end because someone happens to roll the right die and suddenly gain 4 points. Games are fun when you can influence their result, and I have no control over my opponent's dice. I doubt I'll play much unless that feature's removed, as it's just not fun when it decides games (though I've no problem with it for random grunts, just not champions).
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MhBlis

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Re: Killed Outright

PostSat Jun 21, 2014 10:10 pm

I agree that currently "Killed Outright" plays too large a role with everyone able to do it. BUT

I feel that some champions should not be exempt as but that the ability to perform a "Killed Outright" should be tied to specific Champion abilities that cost Elixer points. This means that it can be planned for and can be part of strategy. If you are playing a champion that is not immune they are for the most part range based currently and so if you put them in a position to be killed by that ability your opponent deserves the chance to have his strategy (which still depends on randomness) pay off.

This would need to be tested and it the numbers can be tweaked. Removing it outright removes some of the strategy and randomness that can be planned for from the game.
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Astralwyrm

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Re: Killed Outright

PostSat Jun 21, 2014 11:00 pm

I'm not sure how i would go about defeating kerberos without rising moon. Not saying thats right but the Wolfen don't have alot they can throw at a beast like that as is. It was funny watching half a ram army die as kill outright procced on him though. =P
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Lima

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Re: Killed Outright

PostMon Jun 23, 2014 4:38 pm

Its funny, i hadnt played the game for months thinking that maybe the devs would impress me with something new and exciting.

For months I read and posted on these forums and by far the largest issue players had with the game was its reliance on rng to determine the victor, in other words the luckiest newbie could beat the best with luck on his side.

So after a few months I come back and what do I see?

1- Kill outright... Seriously did a guy in the meeting room say "hey how about we add a rng skill that insta kills any target not immune ot it?" and if he did did not 1 person read forums the several months before and slapped him across the face?

2- The best and most popular game mode "Deathmatch" is no longer available for competitive play. People are now forced to play a blend of KotH, VIP(eww), and they say its a deathmatch but i have a lot of dificulty focusing on actually beat someone by killing his units when he is focusing on elixir points, usually he can finish the match before me.

3- Ranged Champions will destroy melee champions 90% of the time, unless ofcoarse you get a little lucky (surprise surprise).

Theres more but this is all i have patience for...

How i wish there was a good gameboard turn based strategy game out there...
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Killed Outright

PostMon Jun 23, 2014 5:24 pm

For months I read and posted on these forums and by far the largest issue players had with the game was its reliance on rng to determine the victor, in other words the luckiest newbie could beat the best with luck on his side.

wait what?
befeore patch i was able to get 30:2 score with two factions so it wasn't so random at all while i was able to win with most of company composition abusers.

3- Ranged Champions will destroy melee champions 90% of the time, unless ofcoarse you get a little lucky (surprise surprise).

Currently its one ranged champion and mostly She is easiest to kill with most assault units... Most overpowered heroes are Chimera (ok she is somehow ranged with celestial scourge) and Golem (that is definetly not ranged).

The current problem are indeed auto KO but its less important than imbalance of Legendary units + terrible random spawns of elixirs that can be annoying but still are less important than overpowered compositions.

as i said before:

Major problems:
1. Far to cheap Legendaries.
2. Auto KO that will throw away most of new players very fast.
3. Random Pickups

Minor problems:
1. Unlimited swarm units (3-5 per type instead 10 for group)
2. Affinity Markers over units to check their type without pointing a unit.
3. Fixing some affinities to be more usefull (mostly 3'rd type is visibly weaker that first two becouse of its high price)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Killed Outright

PostMon Jun 23, 2014 9:46 pm

I would still add

4. Can't score on the first turn

Which often causes one player to have to play catch up since they are 2 points down before you can get most of your units into position.

This is really exasperated by the speed disparity.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Killed Outright

PostMon Jun 23, 2014 11:19 pm

MhBlis wrote:I would still add
4. Can't score on the first turn
Which often causes one player to have to play catch up since they are 2 points down before you can get most of your units into position.
This is really exasperated by the speed disparity.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/328 ... 81E7E9128/ my first turn some games ago ;)

but for me its still part of point 3 "Random Pickups" ... non random should appear somwhere really close to axis of the battlefield after 1 or even 2 turn 'elixir marker' pointing the hex where elixir globe will appear after this time.



unless you think also about Koth - then i can agree but as a minor not major issue ;)
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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MhBlis

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Re: Killed Outright

PostMon Jun 23, 2014 11:48 pm

We had both posited that Elixirs should have a marker appear 1 turn before they spawn but the Devs said they didn't want that so I'm just working inside their framework. Giving everyone 1 turn to move into position means you can address the problem to some extent. If you then have the Elixirs spawn in a more balanced way it addresses both problems.

It is partly coupled with 3 yes for later game. Though I've had a number of games where even though the elixir spawned where we could both reach it the person who won Discipline roll got to grab it and run to safety. Playing wolves I didn't have the numbers to contest KoTH or Undead I was to slow to contest on the first turn and thus was always playing catch up. I've had the reverse with my Lion army often getting an easy 2 point Turn 1 lead because I win the discipline roll.

Thus the game is decided Turn 1 and we are just going through the motions. If the second spawns in my half of the map it is game over 3 vs 1 at best but often 4 vs 0.

This is actually the issue I'm trying to address which is why I view it as a major issue since it impacts so heavily on balance. Also it is a super easy fix.
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Fox.

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Re: Killed Outright

PostTue Jun 24, 2014 7:43 am

First !
what I hope is remove "Killed Outright" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DOD and PAR enough already,
we don't need anymore in this game
we are not playing poker
Thank you!!!!!!

New game mode is funny
but here are some opinions:

1. Elixir points should not be the victory requests,
It should be something like a ticket to use special order or action
which let you win more easy

2. Control the highlight area is a good setting to force player be aggressive
how about set control point and let it be the victory requests
like the old game mode "king of hill"
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Killed Outright

PostTue Jun 24, 2014 8:04 am

We had both posited that Elixirs should have a marker appear 1 turn before they spawn but the Devs said they didn't want that so I'm just working inside their framework.

But now maybe they see that current solution is wrong ;)

Honestly - for all games i played in current patch - situation when someone steals alreagy grabbed Elixir - happened maybe twice...
Last edited by Dragon_Warrior on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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