Dogs of War Online

This is after the patch notes guy wrote this:

Golem: -2 DAM, +1 ACC, -3 AP

I don't agree with any of it

So, taking these new stats into account, I'll post my small suggestions, with the reasoning behind them.

FIRST: The dreaded Golem of Archeon
Current stats:
ACC 16
DAM 22
PAR 9
DOD 9
TOU 19
WIL 13

Now, let's have a look at the ways of dealing with a Golem:
- Ranged attacks to soften it.
With its dod of 9, it is surprisingly nimble for such a huge target. I suggest reducing the DOD down to a bad level: Let's say 7; With this, the Golem will have a hard time disengaging combat to go hit your squishies, as well as making it easier to hit with ranged attacks.
- Spells: It has insensitive. Will see later
- Surrounding it so that it can't hit you: With the buff to accuracy, I fear the Golem will have a too easy time at simply hitting people when surrounded: It was still down to 50% chance to hit when heavily wounded against average Parry units and almost fully encircled, in my experience.. I suggest reducing the accuracy down to more standard levels, like 14.

On the other hand, this makes it very vulnerable to its "counters". As a compensation, it could still keep its old 24 DAM for when it faces other legendaries (not that important against regular troops it'll kill jsut as fast as before). This would make it better against single targets, but weaker against numbers. An anti-legendary legendary, in a way.

let's look at its skills now:
LVL1: Living dead (so can be healed by necro), Fear 20 (so almost always fears nearby enemies), Stedfast (So can't suffer penalties when charged, meaning charging isn't that interesting against it), and insensitive (making spells a coin toss).
LVL2: Fierce or possessed.
LVL3: Mobile or rutheless
LVL4: Hard boiled or scourge: Living
LVL5: Master strike or Powerful swipe

Now, one thing that's funny with the golem is that there's an obvious build: Possessed, mobile, hard boiled. Level 5 isn't mandatory, if you want to save points.

Let's look at a few possible changes.
First of all, I'd suggest getting rid of Stedfast at level 1, but replace it with Scourge: Living. The main reason being that Stedfast is anti-strategic: Since charging doesn't reduce stats by stunning, it dumbs down the use of a golem you can just send forward, receiving charges to no effect. Scourge: Living, on the other hand, makes it better at targeting, again, single targets, a bigger killing blow if yo will.

Then there's insensitive. I recommend Deep blue's thread about it: Basically, turn it into a "hard boiled" for spells IIRC. Less of a coin toss.

At level 2, it's currently a no brainer: Possessed is such an useful skill on it it's mandatory. Now, what about making level 1 a choice between Hard boiled and Possessed? This would make the player decide between being even more resilient or not being affected by damage.

At level 3, it's almost certain that the player will take mobility, since it makes reaching the enemy so much easier. Some will take rutheless, but I think it's more interesting in 800AP games where you have more units around. To make it more interesting, make it a choice between stedfast (receive a charge = not stunned) or Ruthless. This way, the theme stays in the "stunned" area: Either you're a stunning machine, of you're immune to it. This would make an interesting choice.

At level 4, it's currently hard-boiled or scourge: Living. Since I already used those two elsewhere, let's see what's left: Mobility, and fierce. Now this would be a really interesting choice: If a player took possessed, he'd probably want to take fierce too, but that's assuming you're going to reach a dead state. On the other hand, you could want to take mobility to, once again, free yourself of that MOV3. Choices, choices...


Let's look at the next one: The WORG.
To be honest, it's pretty fine. It's a nuke, but it's rather vulnerable. The only thing I'd do is to give it a third level 5 skill: Powerful swipe. Honestly, seems like a good skill for it.


And to end: Likeness of the Chimera. I think I'd do only two things: Reduce the TOU and DAM down to 15 (so -1 and -2) but increase the accuracy up to 16.

The reason to reduce damage is to promote "strength of virtue" spell as a more interesting alternative. The TOU reduction is to make it easier to kill because I don't get why it's tougher than a worg (even with better PAR and DOD!) when it's a mix of caster and fighter.

The accuracy increase is to compensate a bit for those nerfs, and because I see it more like a skilled unit (with good parry and dod) than a hard hitter (at least in melee)/resilient unit.

And to end: Likeness of the Chimera. I think I'd do only two things: Reduce the TOU and DAM down to 15 (so -1 and -2) but increase the accuracy up to 16.

The reason to reduce damage is to promote "strength of virtue" spell as a more interesting alternative. The TOU reduction is to make it easier to kill because I don't get why it's tougher than a worg (even with better PAR and DOD!) when it's a mix of caster and fighter.

The accuracy increase is to compensate a bit for those nerfs, and because I see it more like a skilled unit (with good parry and dod) than a hard hitter (at least in melee)/resilient unit.

maybe lets not nerf the chimera while noone plays it - and focus on golem
She can be beaten in regular ways without a hard counters and its fine. Only problem is that at least two of her spells need fix ;P

And about the golem - at first it needs -1 tou or changing hard boiled to minimum of more then 1 (2-3 ?) damage.
Currently Alahan bowmans deals him 1dam at lev 1 and even if they do 4 at lev 2... making their upgrade mandatory Vs golem abuse is rather annoying (especialy when FEAR reduces also the STR of the units and my hth fighters also deal close to 1 dam to him)

I totally cant say anything about golem behavior on new maps because i didn't find a game yesterday after a patch ;P

I actually faced the chimera couple of times. I only almost won once. The difference is that it requires more skill than the golem, doesn't mean it's not broken, but the end potential is exponentially superior thanks to ranged attacks followed by charges, combined with super high will, great damage and chances of evading attacks. It simply requires more timing.

Also, its spells are mostly fine... Since it can only cast one per turn.

Of all three, I'd say it really is the strongest... But it also costs more, so it balances things out.

Golem:
I believe removing its rapidity was a smart choice still, it's now running at 6 maximum, which means you can avoid it for three turns if you want.

The golem is a low skill needed, but low maximum potential, unit. The opposite of the Worg and Chimera that require skill, but can cause massive damage in the same turn.

TOU is its main appeal, it's meant to be almost immune to damage. It's only that Alahan lacks ranged Ferocious, which would be the most logical counter to it. If Alahan had the ability to take ferocious instead of craptastic "ignore cover", it would be nice. Once you have a ranged ferocious unit (or if a spell makes it through) it starts losing in effectiveness when not possessed. I don't want to see TOU (or ard boiled) too nerfed.

TOU is its main appeal, it's meant to be almost immune to damage. It's only that Alahan lacks ranged Ferocious, which would be the most logical counter to it. If Alahan had the ability to take ferocious instead of craptastic "ignore cover", it would be nice. Once you have a ranged ferocious unit (or if a spell makes it through) it starts losing in effectiveness when not possessed. I don't want to see TOU (or ard boiled) too nerfed.

The problem of Golem is that it REQUIRES a must have counter for it while Worg and Chimera - not.
and while lev 1 bowman deals 1dam to it - it deals really resonable damage to both chimera and worg. To be honest - ranged attacks was main counter for legendaries even back to Confrontation 2-3,5.

as for Feriocious - im not a fan of clone armies and same skills for every facion - but something would be nice.
There are many more skill options that would be nice against golem (cropling shot of skeleton archers for example - but they already have feriocious).

so some of my ideas:

"hunter" skill - each hit add cumulative -1 to all main stats for a cost of dam -3 (or with normal dam - depending on ap cost)

remade "sharpshoter" or "bulls eye" with option to work as old 10hp feriocious but only in green range.

"Point Blank" skill that adds additional damage at contact range - but with normal negative acc modifier

or something different ;P[/list]


BTW - can you point me any efficient Chimera build? I never tried to play her becouse i don't like legandary units idea in 400ap but maybe ill try some day

the patch didn't mention the most important nerf to the golem...RAPIDITY.

Now...this is so awesome and i believe (even before testing) that is a very nice balance change, altough maybe making the choice between rapidity and hardboiled would have been better. Also hardboiled is a tier 4 (not 3 if i remember) which means the golem will probably cost more AP if you want to go that route. That -2 DAM is very relevant. Yes the ACC buff was a bit unecessary but high ACC is kind of needed as it will be always surrounded and i would be pissed if my legendary unit - which will be always outnumbered - has a low hit chance.

the -2 dam is very relevant because now my GG as well as some other more "tough" units won't be bishotted.

All in all i believe the golem changes are very interesting and probably it is not as OP as it was before. Remember that MOV 3 = 1 hexagon pursuit.

About worg...for sure easier to manage but less strong? HECK NO. It is a killing machine especially once it gets bloodlust and implacable. Imo it might be the new flavor of the month.

about chimera...for some reason i didn't meet it quite often so i can't judge well.

As always if you play ram (which i do) you have no issues vs any legendary, without the need to warp your warband around it. Wolf are another story as they do have to rely a lot on ferocious (which really sucks on fangs as legendary have a high PAR and/or fear them always - so crossbowmen are the only valid alternative which costs a lot) and Ylia's wrath vs the golem. Against the worg and chimera they can rely only on their DAM as there is no real skill tailored to kill them so it all comes down to be able to zerg them.

I agree on the remove rapidity, but cannot agree with the -2 damage (cannot bishot units with more than 12 toughtness), two very big nerfs at once and why? One archer with ferocious (not two not three, one) was all that required to screw a golem build... only lions were having problems with golem.
I think golem now has become very very shitty... think I will return to my black paladins build.

Deuzerre wrote:This is after the patch notes guy wrote this:

Golem: -2 DAM, +1 ACC, -3 AP

I don't agree with any of it

So, taking these new stats into account, I'll post my small suggestions, with the reasoning behind them.

[color=#004000]
- Ranged attacks to soften it.
With its dod of 9, it is surprisingly nimble for such a huge target. I suggest reducing the DOD down to a bad level: Let's say 7; With this, the Golem will have a hard time disengaging combat to go hit your squishies, as well as making it easier to hit with ranged attacks.
- Spells: It has insensitive. Will see later
- Surrounding it so that it can't hit you: With the buff to accuracy, I fear the Golem will have a too easy time at simply hitting people when surrounded: It was still down to 50% chance to hit when heavily wounded against average Parry units and almost fully encircled, in my experience.. I suggest reducing the accuracy down to more standard levels, like 14.

Why even bothering playing the game I have a better idea:

Put a script on the golem that basically do this:
When someone has it he automaticaly loses at the beginning of the match.

Sernior wrote:I agree on the remove rapidity, but cannot agree with the -2 damage (cannot bishot units with more than 12 toughtness), two very big nerfs at once and why? One archer with ferocious (not two not three, one) was all that required to screw a golem build... only lions were having problems with golem.
I think golem now has become very very shitty... think I will return to my black paladins build.

If these nerfs reduce the amount of players fielding a Golem even by one, then it is a good nerf. Sernior's reaction sounds promising.

Errol Flynn wrote:If these nerfs reduce the amount of players fielding a Golem even by one, then it is a good nerf. Sernior's reaction sounds promising.

I am happy you liked it and I also hope that when everyone will return to play this game with mirror builds you will like the game more.

the -2 dam is very relevant because now my GG as well as some other more "tough" units won't be bishotted.

but unfortunate lions with less golem counters are still two shooted and encircling is harder

the patch didn't mention the most important nerf to the golem...RAPIDITY.

ok i didn't know about this at first - and i dont knew the new maps - but its propably resonable and positive.

If these nerfs reduce the amount of players fielding a Golem even by one, then it is a good nerf. Sernior's reaction sounds promising.

but to be honest if anyone defends golem 'build' - this not exacly makes it right by reversing his sentences

I hope Senior is right about the new Golem and you now have to use skill to win a game, not just a Golem who lumbers around killing everything. I apologize to Senior for turning his cry that the Golem was over-nurfed around, but that fact he may be harder to use and win with is a good thing for the whole game.