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Legendaries rebalance

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Almanro

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 1:23 pm

As Deep Blue said, Golem was BIG nerfed with finally removing Rapidity (which I agree it had to go), I don't think more nerf will be necessary. I'll try it today after the servers will be back on but I think now it's fine (at least on paper)
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GardenOfSun

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 1:48 pm

I agree with Deuzerre's suggestions about the Golem's leveling, they seem sensible and should improve it even further. Not sure about lowering its DOD further; and I kind of like the nerf to its DAM.
All in all it seems like it was a sensible nerf.
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GardenOfSun

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 1:55 pm

Although, thinking about it, I do agree that its ACC seems a bit too high for the concept of the unit. Would something like -2 ACC and -X AP be viable?
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Deuzerre

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 1:56 pm

Dragon_Warrior wrote:BTW - can you point me any efficient Chimera build? I never tried to play her becouse i don't like legandary units idea in 400ap but maybe ill try some day ;)

The is one for each spell... "Nuke", "Grind" and Snipe" I call them.

"Nuke" is a level 4 Chimera, 293 AP
Pillar (Because the other one requires to be in contact and can only be used on non legendaries)
Righteous (Because it's more versatile)
Strength of virtue

This one casts Hyperion on the turn before it thinks it'll charge (lasts 3 turns) then on the turn it'll charge uses Strengh of virtue on a charge: Equivalent of strength 26. With Hyperion, it allows you to be almost certain to hit. For added troll, use it near the end of the turn with offensive stance, kill something then move back (Or finish a wounded nearby) and since you're almost certain to get your turn back, you can move it away or get close but with defensive stance until the end of the next turn, depending on the situation.

"Grind" can be level 4, but best at level 5. 312 or 328 AP.
It is to be used if you play against LION or WOLF, but not recommended against undead since it sucks against the golem. Or at least, it's not great.
Pillar
Righteous (Immune to fear is always better anyway)
Chastisement
(Optional but recommended) Focus

With this one, you can simply cast, on turn 2, 3, 4 - 6, 7, 8 - 10, 11, 12 - 14, splash a large AoE that will hurt for 6(9) on a large surface. The thing is, you can use this then move away your full move speed until the enemy is fragile enough to simply chain kill them. Also fun with a horde of Swordsmen with parry to slow th enemy and force them to gather in the same place so you can AoE them for maximum effect.

"Snipe" uses the same principles as "Nuke", but in more versatile. It also costs a bit more, and only had it on my face once, but I left since I stood no chance.

335 AP, level 5.
Once gain...
Pillar
Righteous
Celestial Scourge
Focus

With this one, you can do the same as the nuke by using scourge then charging, or you can use the spell on a target then charge an other one, or, to play it like a horible monster, Snipe at a range of 6 then move 5... away from the enemy. Do that again and again, staying away from any black paladins (or focus them with a shot, offensive stance then charge then move back 2 in pursuit, or snipe then hide behind cover...

This thing makes the old crossbow wolf harassment look like hard mode, but is vulnerable to large enemy numbers.

Almanro wrote:As Deep Blue said, Golem was BIG nerfed with finally removing Rapidity (which I agree it had to go), I don't think more nerf will be necessary. I'll try it today after the servers will be back on but I think now it's fine (at least on paper)

Thing is, it's still bloody easy to build in an optimal way. There are no choices, only no brainer options.
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 2:08 pm

335 AP, level 5.
Once gain...
Pillar
Righteous
Celestial Scourge
Focus

but with base 335 i cant even add a sparkling + Valkyrie ;P
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deuzerre

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 2:17 pm

Which is why I say it's very costly :P

The two others are very good though, with the "grind" being rather effective, especially since you can use it to hit behind walls (thanks to the AoE)
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Dragon_Warrior

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 2:27 pm

"Grind" can be level 4, but best at level 5. 312 or 328 AP.
It is to be used if you play against LION or WOLF, but not recommended against undead since it sucks against the golem. Or at least, it's not great.
Pillar
Righteous (Immune to fear is always better anyway)
Chastisement
(Optional but recommended) Focus

but still you wont fit Valkyrie + sparkling to that as i remember
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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Deep Blue

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 5:00 pm

i prefer a no brainer build than an OP unit :D
Closed beta tester - Ram & Wolf player

Useful links:
AP army calculator (by Hod): http://dogsofwar.eu.pn/
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Deuzerre

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 5:46 pm

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
"Grind" can be level 4, but best at level 5. 312 or 328 AP.
It is to be used if you play against LION or WOLF, but not recommended against undead since it sucks against the golem. Or at least, it's not great.
Pillar
Righteous (Immune to fear is always better anyway)
Chastisement
(Optional but recommended) Focus

but still you wont fit Valkyrie + sparkling to that as i remember


With 328, with lvl 1 valk, you end up with 381 pts, so not enough room for a spark, but enough for lvl 3 valkyrie (9+5+5) built around counter-attack at 400 pts
But without focus, you can have a valk and a spark for a total of 386 (enough room left to level the spark to level 3 for a healing spark) for 400pts
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p122ab0y

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Re: Legendaries rebalance

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 6:02 pm

Dragon_Warrior wrote:
335 AP, level 5.
Once gain...
Pillar
Righteous
Celestial Scourge
Focus

but with base 335 i cant even add a sparkling + Valkyrie ;P


Dragon_warrior, take it from me, I've been a longtime lion user and I've done some extensive testing with different Chimera builds (I've also been top 10 three times using a lion comp). The best build and I would argue the only viable build that exist at present is lvl5 Chimera w/ chastisement & focus and 2x lvl 31 sparkling with luminous heal. Here's why:

1) why 2x sparkling? Ideally you want 3x lvl 3 sparkling with luminous heal + lvl 4 chimera w/ pillar, chastisement but unfortunately due to the ap increase of spark this comp just ever so slightly break the 400 ap mark. Therefore, we'll go the next best thing of lvl 5 chimera (add focus) and 2x sparklings.

2) why not strength of virtue? Unfortunately Chimera does not have the tanking power of Golem, even with SoV you cannot kill any units w/ full hp in one shot. It doesn't matter if you do 39 damage to a unit, as long as an enemy unit has 1 hp, it can still attack (and trust me it will attack if its going to die anyway). You also do not want to use offensive stance unless you are positioned such that no enemy unit can get to you for the remainder of the turn. Offensive stance leaves your chimera extremely vulnerable.

3) why Chastisement? There are two combat strategies against Chimera 1) is to overwhelm and engage in numbers.2) 2 is use range and kit (this approach is more often used against legendaries). Chimera is a caster-warrior and as such can cast spell and attack on the same turn. Chastisement counters combat strategy 1 will do enough damage to MOST units to allow a 1-hit kill followup from a melee attack (best case 2 kills from pursuit movement). Chastisement also has incredible range and does not require direct LoS (line of site). Given the Chimera 5 movement and and a chastisement range of 4, you can effectively damage units 12 hexagons away (due to aoe effect). This will pressure an opponent o engage or scatter units. Unfortunately both leaves the opponent at a disadvantage.

4) why not use valkary instead of sparklings? One reason is the ap restriction, unfortunately regen no longer heal immediately and one valkary simply isnt enough. The other reason is movement. With a Chimera, you will often find yourself in situations of chasing opponents. very often you will find yourself out of range to cast luminous and or out of range to collect faith (orthodox). Sparkling has identical mov of chimera. On any turns where you use chimera for casting or attacking (in the green hexagons) you are within range of heal and devotion.

5) what do I do with sparklings? never engage sparklings and always position them behind the chimera. They are used for devotion and healing.

6) should I use Pillar or guardian angel? This is a slight toss up but I prefer guardian angel. The reason is that as Chimera you can only cast 1 spell a turn. This basically rules out pillar because you want to reserve your spell action to chastisement. Spells like guardian angel however can be cast at the beginning of the match and probably never again. This also makes it a nightmare for opponents to kill your support units-sparklings. Keep in mind that sparklings are squishy. a pillar heal of 15 raelly only means 1 extra attack against a sparkling on a given turn to kill it anyways.
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