Dogs of War Online

Ok i finally had time to play...i did about 10 matches in the 400 AP bracket facing experienced playres (or so thought the matchmaking). I apologize for a post again about the new patch but the previous ones became a flame war and weren't very constructive.

My overall opinion about this patch is...I LIKE IT but it could be improved as some ideas are nice but badly implemented.

The PROs:

- i like the new deployment system as in a way it keeps the game fresh and it is very hard if not impossible to go for a draw in a deathmatch.
- I like the new multiple dominion map and that you consider the AP of one unit.
- i like having a chance to get some reward at the end of the match.
- I like the new sparkling and primal attacks
- I like the new warrior-mages/monks
- I like that we have 3 brackets only
- I like that elites cost less altough i wonder if the skills price is still ok.

The CONs:
- The new deployment system sometimes can be terrible as some units have the chance to hit you right from the beginning. NOTICE: i'm reporting something that another player said as to me it never happened
- Im ok with having smaller maps (well not too small) but please put CLEAR borders. Even some different colored hexagons will do!
- Dominion map should be revisited a little : i dont like that is possible to gain points CLOSE to the deployement zone as sometimes the game revoles around -> i try to snipe some of your units (ie: casters) then i retreat to my area.
- Dominion map starting tooltip is also WRONG. This led me to lose my first game as i trusted in the tooltip in the beginning (never trust tooltips in DoW btw! ) which said you needed 2000 AP NOT 500 - just a little difference, right?
- Dominion map is becoming a draw festival. Had today this situation -> remaining units 1 priest (127 AP) + 1 pala (107 AP) full life vs 1 Worg (217 AP) at 10 HP. Yeah i had more AP than him + his worg was heavily wounded -> draw. Reasonable right? AP should be calculated with the remaining health. Unfortunately he retreated with the Worg which managed to get to the dominion zone while my pala couldn't have managed to enter or to be in contact with it...meaning i might even have lost the match. So..a draw is gained every time both players reach 500 simultaneously? this has to go at least...maybe give a 10-15 AP range but when i obtained 70+AP than the enemy i shouldn't get a draw.
-250 AP bracket shouldn't have legendaries running around. Really you are destroying the new player base by acting like this.
- I'm still a bit unsure about some AP prices, especially for elite skills and for the light! which is a nice skill in theory but a bit too kamikaze like (and is made only for the golem, lets be honest!).
- Insensitive on the flesh golem has to go. 50% chances are terrible and destroy any tactical aspect as it is unpredictable the outcome. For example i finally managed to kill all flesh golem's escort and my black paladin has to cast exausting touch in contact with the golem. It boils down to -> 50% chance to win or lose the game as the next turn my paladin will be obliterated. This of course can be applied to many other spells (celestial scourge, putrefaction etc...). The same can be applied to ring of the mist/ice. My suggestion -> remove insensitive from the golem + add a charge on ring of ice/mist that prevents 100% the damage of one arrow/spell (a reversed bad omen, kind of ). Obviously only one wolven can be affected at the time and the buffs disappears if the caster is dead.


all in all i feel this patch improved the game but certain aspects has to be adjusted. Lion players shedding tears aren't super justified. I agree that valks should be back pre-patch but the sparklings are ok now. People apparently forgot that they can also attack and yes they are very annoying. I think that nuker mage strategy is still viable it just appears to be weaker due to the new positioning system and map's scale...and yes it requires a bit more skil.

I would agree with the above.

- I like the new sparkling

you're breking my heart with this one. They had long way from totally useless in 0.10 and started to be really usefull and suicidal map controll unit (in term of blocking enemy atack archer or mage for one turn and dying after that) but then someone started to use them as a healing ball...
Danneran was dealt brutally by changing frequency from 3 to 1 that makes it really strong and enough nerf while healing ball was cut down by 10->5 healing and no option to heal own kin.
But Mov reduction and cost increase was overkill for a unit that needs 5 turns to kill lone mage casting spells at other targets... as for unit able only to block its terrible tactical nerf - especialy when sparkling only eficient 'weapon' was engage penalty Vs Mages and disengage damage Vs archers.

As for the Mage - he will disappear now (even without a nerf new maps would kill him) but back in 0.11 there were also no mages and Lions was usefull... not exacly balanced in term of any unit can be played but there were different and competetive bands in top 50.

Swordsman skill is interesting but it have so HUGE drawback that it makes it usefull once per 2-3 games to be honest while skeleton hard boiled is usefull always and can combo with Somatic/Martyr. It could be ok but with lesser drawback or for no more thatn 4ap points.
But if i can suggest something - i would add them "Shield Bask" as a taunt alternative - a Active skill reducing STR until end of turn but adds double or triple Stun penalty (Dazed or something).
Adding them ruthles (at lev 2 or 3) would be simpler and also good alternative.

From the perovious patch im happy about War Lion and Archers - with currently are only Lions meta units.

Knight still have to high cost - especialy wneh healing is nerfed to the ground.
Valkyrie was fine perovious patch but even last time it wasnt so popular due her weak fighting stats - especialy compared to Black Paladin (she is cheaper but 30% ap cost and half the stats imo)

as for legendaries Chimera can be weakest legendary now with weak guardian angel and pricy offensive spells that can be cast only once two turns - while Occoult and Lonewolf Rage do bad things to her. But im against all legendaries below 800 so im not a fan of buffing her at all costs.


as for the Wolfens i meet only ONE wolfen band in current patch so its not exacly a good sign... Crossbowman should get some of his old STR now and Grave Guardian/PoB should have some of their nerfs reversed.


About the maps - new idea can be good but currently its worse than before - due to Ancient Battlefield sizes and invisible walls. There should be no way to both engage and cast offensive spells on opponent that don't want to fight in first turn. And any map must have hard covers letting hide most fragille unit behind Stone or something without option to be shoot (both arrows and spells) in first or second turn. Currently on most of them Consiousnes would be waste

I knew i would break your heart Seal of dellar'n should be at frequency 2 with a base cost of 4-3 imo as it basically does the same damage as the primal attack, with the added bonus of dealing double/triple damage if enemy units are bad positioned. Sparkling healing is fine as before it was out of control (each lion company using 3 of them as a base regardless of having a mage or not!). I think with the seal of dellar'n frequency/mana fix the mage will shine as before altough even know is quite a strong unit if supported. I mean...i know you cannot compare them too well but im playing a similar build with my ram (priest lvl 5 + 3 martyr batteries) which is similar to the old mage+3xsparklings with the difference that no one can heal my priest nor my martyr batteries and i'm having a good success rate so far (ironically i lost a match vs a lion mage company )

@swordman suggestion...ruthless is against the lore imo...is like giving them bornkiller! :O

@maps: yes they are sometimes ancient battlefield 2.0 but at least you have covers. It sucks however to be immediately in range of archers (lion ones especially as they have very good ACC!)

I'm testing now some crazy wolven build based on PoB It is so secret i cannot say more!

i know you cannot compare them too well but im playing a similar build with my ram (priest lvl 5 + 3 martyr batteries) which is similar to the old mage+3xsparklings with the difference that no one can heal my priest nor my martyr batteries and i'm having a good success rate so far )

Skeletons don't heal but loses much less hp on skill use and still be eficient fighters-blockers with even 50% hp.
Sparkling at less than 20hp is free purshuit movement for enemy Assaults ;P
His old Mov was aceptable exchange for their terrible Tou.

(ironically i lost a match vs a lion mage company

Small map + bad cover i suppose - on larger maps Prest Aggresion was maybe delayed by lower Ram ini but additional range (Vs Scourge) was similar advantage. Now both spells have range firs turn on all small maps.

@swordman suggestion...ruthless is against the lore imo...is like giving them bornkiller! :O

by Lore they should definetly have better base stats or lower cost
And to be honest lion units had mostly very few stats (except sacreds on higher ranks).
Ruthles would be usefull - and thats all. Shield Bash (or propably more better options) would be more interesting but its new skill that needs some work - while ruthles is ready to go - and few lines of code can implement it

Lions simply needs some raw power other than war lions that currently are only line - fighting units. Lions and Archers - all other guys are below meta.

Deep Blue wrote:The PROs:

- i like the new deployment system as in a way it keeps the game fresh and it is very hard if not impossible to go for a draw in a deathmatch.

- I like the new sparkling

- I like that elites cost less altough i wonder if the skills price is still ok.

The CONs:
- The new deployment system sometimes can be terrible as some units have the chance to hit you right from the beginning. NOTICE: i'm reporting something that another player said as to me it never happened

- Im ok with having smaller maps (well not too small) but please put CLEAR borders. Even some different colored hexagons will do!

- Insensitive on the flesh golem has to go. 50% chances are terrible and destroy any tactical aspect as it is unpredictable the outcome. For example i finally managed to kill all flesh golem's escort and my black paladin has to cast exausting touch in contact with the golem. It boils down to -> 50% chance to win or lose the game as the next turn my paladin will be obliterated. This of course can be applied to many other spells (celestial scourge, putrefaction etc...). The same can be applied to ring of the mist/ice. My suggestion -> remove insensitive from the golem + add a charge on ring of ice/mist that prevents 100% the damage of one arrow/spell (a reversed bad omen, kind of ). Obviously only one wolven can be affected at the time and the buffs disappears if the caster is dead.

Lion players shedding tears aren't super justified. I agree that valks should be back pre-patch but the sparklings are ok now. People apparently forgot that they can also attack and yes they are very annoying. I think that nuker mage strategy is still viable it just appears to be weaker due to the new positioning system and map's scale...and yes it requires a bit more skil.

I only quoted what I have issues with:

I think your assessment on the deployment system is wrong. Starting close or starting on opposing sides isnt what determines if they'll be a draw or not. After 14 turns theres only one way you'll have a draw, if one of the players wants it.

The new spark is completly misguided. Before it was a mana feeding healing unit, now its a mana feeding unit with a timer on it that costs 2 swordman in ducats. Lets be honest no-one uses that heal effectively. Its not meat shield all it does is perhaps dodge some arrows if you opponent is stupid enough to aim for them.

Sure but only KoTL still remains a difficult option on a setup as it can take a lot of hits, but its dmg is not enough so you need more range dps. which means that Kotl build is one that either lacks dmg or lacks the units to protect those dmg dealers I feel.

Really? I must be unlucky because as soon I gave up on finding a setup that makes the chimera viable (IMPOSSIBLE) I started testing new mage builds and i lost 3 games in turn 1 simply because he could either attack me in 1 go or simply sprint a unit next to my mages and throw all strategy out of the game.

Smaller maps are ok, borders ofc must be well defined, but seriously if I chose to spawn my units in the rear most side of the map I clearly have plans to protect some units so having maps whose rear most spawnpoints are in sprinting range of the forward most points is just silly.

Flesh golem: well ya insensitive has to go, but seriously thats it? no ap increase, no running distance decrease, no hardboiled nerf? its anoying seeing most units dead 1 dmg on something that can kill in one blow and has 60 HP.

Sparks can attack yes, but you know what happens after attack? Riposte, and exchainging half of your sparks hp for a blow of 4-7 dmg is great right?

Valk nerf was just absurd, no reason for it either keep it the way it is and reduce ap cost to about 40 which is what she is worth, or put her back the way she was.

I agree with mostly of your cons and pro and with Dragon Warrior further analysis, however I disagree with you regarding mostly three points:

- The deployment system is not helping against getting a Draw, but more the Tiny Maps. However I want to highlight also in this post that having tiny maps like "Ancient Battlefield" is not a good way to solve the Draw problem, since those maps don't require in most cases any strategy, only luck in starting the turn and then rushing to the enemy before he can attack you, they also promote Zerg armies since in that way you can easily block all the enemy's routes, allowing your mages/archers to decide the match before it even starts.

- Sparklings as they are now are too weak for their cost, at least they should have back their previous cost or movement

- Golem "Insensitive" ability must stay, otherwise it will be completely useless in any AP bracket against any mage composition, if you just lose once because you couldn't cast the spell on it is not a good point to erase one of its abilities so that in the future you can auto-win against it! (PS: do you know also that if you fail to cast it you can still cast the spell another time, the only limit is that you can not have it on more than one enemy unit per time?) I agree instead that its base cost should be higher than 250AP to avoid to have him in the beginner bracket. When I played with it (pre-patch), most of the time it was always possible to be killed (only in very rare situations the enemy didn't have any unit that could do less than 4-6 dam to it), however the tactic you're using should be different respect to when you face another standard army. However, after a bit of testing, I would eliminate completely its lvl4 ability in which it gains a +1 Mov, that is overpowered.

Considering now the reasons why Ram is overpowered at the moment (as the ladder shows), I can easily identify 3 main points: the lvl3 Necro is the most powerful "healing" unit in the game (with the right skill choice you damage your units only if it is heavy wounded), the Skeleton Warrior second lvl ability is too cheap as it can also be used in too many combos (e.g., with Martyr, as a Meat Shield more effective respect to all the other armies troops, to make "numbers" for Necro lvl4 spell, etc.) and the Flesh Golem is too cheap.

I'm not saying that they have to be necessary nerfed, but in that case also the other armies should have either base units so useful and better healing capabilities or the elites should cost less.

As for skeleton warriors i think that cost of hard boiled is ok - and even the main cost is ok - problem is that both Tou and Hard Boiled lowers dam from martyr and that Swordsmans are terible compared to T2 skeleton.

About Golem insensitive i think that is simply to random - if it wouuld be active skill that gives immuinty for the NEXT spell (untill next activation and activating insensitive again) - this would be ok... same for ring of ice/mist i suppose.

about the necro - goot point is that he can no longer heal himself (i didnt't tested it yet - always forget about that - but it was stated in patch notes)

I think Ring of Ice/Mist should last till the caster next two activations, since at the moment they will shield effectively one of your unit only for one turn (because if you cast it before moving the other unit, then it counts already as a turn, while if you first move your other unit, you can neither move it too far away from the caster nor moving it in the open, or you'll be attacked by the ranged/magic units before you can cast it!

Deep Blue wrote:The PROs:

- i like the new deployment system as in a way it keeps the game fresh

http://imgur.com/zt5rvxw

Fresh?