Wolfen So OP

well all I know is I can get a wolfen archer alone in the back of the map and stick a Gargoyle with full health right next to him and the stupid wolfen archer might still kill my gargoyle by just simply walking away and shooting me with nature buff or not using nature buff same thing.

Something needs to be done about the disengagement because right now for undead wolfen just ignore that you have them surrounded and walk through and past your units like they arnt there

That's quite an overestimation of the ability of wolfs to disengage, but I do believe there is a problem with wolf balance. The main problem with wolves right now is that they are the fastest, toughest (highest average TOU), and highest damaging faction in the game.

Interestingly enough, the Fang Warrior is NOT the most cost efficient power to AP unit in the game (both the Skelewar and Swordsman beat him out in raw stats/AP) but the game is weighted toward offense which makes Born Killer the culprit here, imo.

It's a hard balance though, as Fang Warriors are already the least cost efficient "line" unit (and this is with double-counting their DAM stat due to Born Killer) and taking away Born Killer would, arguably, make them far overcosted.

Seems a very simple equation with Wolfen for me.

Best race = leaderboard consistently dominated by Wolfen. Not unusual to see 8 or more of the top 10 as Wolfen.

Reason = Best damage + Best Toughness + Best Mobility + Born Killer + Wolfen Crossbows.

Would it be so outrageous to reduce the MOV of the Wolfen Combat units to 5? They'd still be the fastest race - just not dashing like lightning bolts across the map or worse, Wolfen archers hopping 3 hexes out of cover for a clean shot, then back behind it.

i would be against redusing their speed to 5 ... crossbownam with 5 is ok but its ranged harraser...

In C3 Wolves were 50 % faster than humans with option to rise it to 75 or more %
also additional attack is partially ok (as i said 2 months ago 3 to 2 attacks would be closer to C3 situation)

simply they shouldn't have so high DOD (they may be faster but twice bigger) and ATT/STR/PAR/TOU stats higher than units with one attack less. For example Fang should not have higher base stats than swordsman (swordsmans wasn't the lowest rank in Alahan army - but they were considered as Veterans by their rank - while only guards of Alahan was regulars) while he is already faster and have twice its attacks.

well all I know is I can get a wolfen archer alone in the back of the map and stick a Gargoyle with full health right next to him and the stupid wolfen archer might still kill my gargoyle by just simply walking away and shooting me with nature buff or not using nature buff same thing.

Something needs to be done about the disengagement because right now for undead wolfen just ignore that you have them surrounded and walk through and past your units like they arnt there

That's quite an overestimation of the ability of wolfs to disengage, but I do believe there is a problem with wolf balance. The main problem with wolves right now is that they are the fastest, toughest (highest average TOU), and highest damaging faction in the game.

Interestingly enough, the Fang Warrior is NOT the most cost efficient power to AP unit in the game (both the Skelewar and Swordsman beat him out in raw stats/AP) but the game is weighted toward offense which makes Born Killer the culprit here, imo.

It's a hard balance though, as Fang Warriors are already the least cost efficient "line" unit (and this is with double-counting their DAM stat due to Born Killer) and taking away Born Killer would, arguably, make them far overcosted.

it sounds like it should be an overstatement but its really not a wolfen archer using attack buffs like natures can kill a gargoyle in 1on1 combat its stupid and its true it shouldn't even be a close call but a wolfen archer can give a gargoyle a run for its money 1on1

If you run your Garg out in the open with no cover and without using defensive stance, yes an xbowman can destroy it - but only by using offensive stance (or being buffed by another wolf). In every other scenario, the garg should come out on top in a "1v1" (hint: this game isn't all about 1v1s). A garg can catch up with a harassment xbow, as the garg can move 2 more hexes than the xbow every turn.

There's plenty to discuss about the CoY - such as Born Killer, movement, harassment, etc but a garg vs an xbow is not one of those things, in my opinion. Failing to have discourse and simply making outlandish claims does nothing to further the balance of the game. If you believe wolves are "So OP" what should be done, in your mind, to balance them?

the garg can do what like 14-16 damage per hit 1 time? the archer can walk away from the garg parry the attack then shoot the garg for 2 hits doing 24 damage its really not that far of a stretch for an wolfen archer to take out a garg and that's an example I use to show just how overpowerd and or underpowered undead units vs wolfen is

Reason = Best damage + Best Toughness + Best Mobility + Born Killer + Wolfen Crossbows.

Let's not forget the 2 war-monk they have with skill damages that provide strong harrass as well,and as they are war-monk they have good stats AND double attack.

@zeveross : Fang war got 11 toughness,just 1 less than a black pala or a skull war.Other stats are around 9,seems pretty good to me for a 45 ap unit with born killer.

the garg can do what like 14-16 damage per hit 1 time? the archer can walk away from the garg parry the attack then shoot the garg for 2 hits doing 24 damage its really not that far of a stretch for an wolfen archer to take out a garg and that's an example I use to show just how overpowerd and or underpowered undead units vs wolfen is

Again, you're imbalancing the equation. Wolfen with crossbow only have 1 attack by default, just like a garg. So yes they can step back and try and shoot for 24 (likely being attacked in the process) by using offensive stance. What happens to the garg 's damage with offensive stance? Easily 30 to the wolfen. Factor in that he's going to hit on that disengaging strike "85%" (notice: that is a rough estimate, I did not do the math but know garg has +1 ACC over wolf's DOD) of the time and 8/10 in that scenario you posted the wolf is dead, especially if he DID use offensive stance.

Additionally, Garg has a DOD of 14 while Wolfen has an ACC of 9 so the deck isn't exactly stacked in the wolf's favor in this scenario. Fang Warrior vs Garg I can see the argument, but they're more similar in AP costs.

@Vahire: I'm not saying Fang is bad by any means, just that he's not the most AP efficient footsoldier - even when factoring offensive stats/AP and that's with double counting DAM for Born Killer (but no upgrades were factored in). You'd think from conversations that he just blew away all the other basic warriors AP-efficiency wise, but he doesn't. Wolfs just have amazing burst, which is hard to balance.

Ha y sry i misread.

Salut,
je suis joueur de confrontation depuis ces débuts jusqu'à la version 3.5 et DOW !
J'ai moi aussi quelques difficultées face au wolfens. Il faut dire qu'ils ont perdus des handicaps importants dans la versions pc! Ils ont maintenant la résistance des "Dévoreurs"(wolfens coté obscure), une bonne esquive face au tir alors que dans la versions figurines ils donnaient un bonus dut a leur grande taille et cette derniere les empechait aussi de se glisser aussi facilement parmis leur enemis. Les terrains encombrés comme ils sont, leur permet d''être a l'abri des tirs et au bout de deux tours d'être au contact des mages.

Après les autres races ont aussi leur avantages, mais le surnombre des nécromants n'est pas des plus efficaces, vu que dès leur activation, les pantins morbides sont déjà blessés ("ephemere" agire après leur activation, a la fin du tour suivant leur activation)

Dans le jeu de figurines, les tireurs avaient des caractéristiques de corps à corps, ils ne pouvaient pas tirer mais pouvaient plus facilement se défendre.

Ce ne sont que des remarques, car à mes yeux Dogs of War reste un bon jeu!