Dogs of War Online

Downloaded the game today, have about 5 hours of game-time in.
Initial impressions/feedback:

Good
-Tutorial was good. Simple, easy to follow, fun.
-Art/animation/graphics are pleasing.
-Potential seems great. I am already excited about the other possible factions.
-Game play is relatively snappy. Everything acts the way I would expect, making it an easy game to pick up and play.
-Music is decent, ...could use some variety.

Bad
- I chose 'create my own army' after the tutorial, I had no idea what I was picking for units, they need a pop-up that explains what each unit does/AP value... I just guessed at what I was picking.
- Was queued for about 4 hours, never got into a real match. I know its beta, and there probably isn't a lot of people playing, but I wanted to mention it.
- Several misspelling/grammar/ui issues during tutorial
- Playing the same training maps repeatedly was already feeling like a grind. I suggest varying the AP size of each encounter. Instead of having 3 options all at 250, and then having to wait til you get a 500 AP army to get to the next tier... why not have a 200, 300, 450 or something, so you can move up gradually? I feel it's silly to have 3 armies all at the same value.
- Missions written in French.
- A.I. in training obviously performs the same way every game. Same guys move in the same order to the same places.
- A.I. mages for Easy Ram, sometimes created skeletons that just stood in the same place the whole game, never moving or attacking... same with the mages themselves.

Ugly
- The barracks seems like an interesting idea, but the current implementations seems off. 40,000 Ducats to get 1 basic unit a day?? I'll have to see how it works out late-game, but it seems clunky right now.
- I'm already concerned about the microtransaction aspect of this game. Being able to buy leveled units with real money seems bad.
- At present, the real money verse in-game money ratio is crazy. Lower cost items (going off of Wolf units) the ratio is 1:98 for the cheapest. Then, at the highest the ratio becomes 1:594. As the game progresses you will need to spend over 6 times the game time to keep up. That is an absurd curve and smacks of the obvious forced hand of spending real money to keep up.

More on microtransactions

-I have no problem with microtransactions, and I have spent literally hundreds, if not a thousand dollars on League of Legends, Smite, Neverwinter, Warcraft etc. over the last 3-4 years. But I refuse to spend money when the implementation is as gratuitous as the current games ratio (as high as 1 cyan to 1,800 Ducats). Microtransactions should be for vanity options exclusively (see Path of Exile), or in rare cases units/boosts IF the ratio is constant (IE. if lower priced items are a ratio 1: 50, that ratio should remain for all purchases.) If you want to reward players for spending money, give them more Cyan for their Dollar as they spend more. An ethical gaming company should never put their community in a situation where the game will become less-fun if they don't spend (more) money.
That would be the situation if the microtransaction stays the way it is listed. The further you get into the game, the more of a grind it will be, and the less fun you will have, UNLESS you spend money.

Again, using my above example as proof:
To purchase a lower level (lvl.1) unit your Ducats are worth 0.01 Cyan each.
As you progress they become less and less value, meaning you have to grind more and more... not just for your renown/xp, but to make purchases.
By the time you want a high level (lvl.13) unit your Ducats are worth 0.0016 Cyan each.
You are literally being punished for advancing in the game.
It will now take you 12 hours to get the same reward you would get after 2.

This game has great potential, and I have been excited about since it first showed up on Steam.
And I will continue Beta testing and giving feedback...
I just hope Cyanide Studios does the right thing with microtransactions.

about microtranscations: i do not feel at the moment they are mandatory. What makes you think they really are? (ps: i played the game long enough to tell you they are not needed once you unlock missions the ducat flows is quite big )

Deep Blue wrote:about microtranscations: i do not feel at the moment they are mandatory. What makes you think they really are? (ps: i played the game long enough to tell you they are not needed once you unlock missions the ducat flows is quite big )

They are obviously not mandatory.
I was just making note that in its current state, DoW's F2P model is the same as the other games' that have been proven to ruin the game/community.

Good model: Invest money = be rewarded.
Bad model: Don't invest money = be punished.

Currently, the game is punishing you the longer you play without spending cash.
As you advance, your in-game currency devalues. That should never be the case.

As I said in the original post, if you want a curve to give cash players more "bang for their buck" it should be on the bank side of the game.
IE. Your dollar is worth more Cyan, the more you spend. Not, your Ducat is worth less the more you play.

Look at successful models like League of Legends and Smite.
The currency in-game is valued the same, regardless of what level item your'e buying. 1 of this equals X of these all the time. If you want vanity items (skins, boosts etc) you can buy them all at the same rate.
However, you are the REWARDED if you spend more cash for the items in game.
At rate (A) you get 100 units for every Dollar, but at rate (B) you can get 150 units for every dollar.
Your dollar goes further AND it doesn't exponentially increase the in-game grind.

The microtransaction set-up they use now is the very definition of the "unethical" model.
Not necessarily "pay to win." But it is: "we are going to make your game play experience miserable if you don't pay."

i admit that i played the game 2 patches ago where things were different. In this one i noticed they revamped the money system by adding lot of quests...which give less money (i would say) than the previous ones. Probably you are right as my perception is distorted by being at max renown level thus having all units unlocked and a higher ducats flow. They should lower the level requirement to buy new units (so that everybody can enjoy the game potential relatively fast and there is no sense of : omg i got beaten only because he can use X and Y) as well as the level 1 units ducat costs of the regular ones. I remember the black paladin level 1 costing 800-900 ducats while now the price skyrocketed to 3,5k...was it really necesarry to put a so high barrier for new players? i am fine to have leveled units at higher price but level ones should be kept low.

I'm too new to know what the effects of buying pre-leveled units are/will be.
On the surface it seems bad. Or at least, questionable.

Again, since your in-game currency devalues as you advance, you are put in a really unfavorable spot.
You are forced to grind MORE to get LESS.

They call it a "grind" for a reason. It's least fun part of the game.
If your grind gets harder/longer as the game progresses, but you get less reward... what are you going to do?
Either open your wallet, or quit playing.

It appears that Cyanide's profit strategy is to make the end-game so miserable you either pay them or quit.
When the end-game community becomes only paying players (because the others can't keep up), what do you think happens to the game?

Gagaween wrote:I'm too new to know what the effects of buying pre-leveled units are/will be.
On the surface it seems bad. Or at least, questionable.

Again, since your in-game currency devalues as you advance, you are put in a really unfavorable spot.
You are forced to grind MORE to get LESS.

They call it a "grind" for a reason. It's least fun part of the game.
If your grind gets harder/longer as the game progresses, but you get less reward... what are you going to do?
Either open your wallet, or quit playing.

It appears that Cyanide's profit strategy is to make the end-game so miserable you either pay them or quit.
When the end-game community becomes only paying players (because the others can't keep up), what do you think happens to the game?

uhm this maybe is a bit too hard judgement in my opinion. I feel like "an end game" player and grinding is not an issue at all because...i dont need to grind. At some point you feel comfortable with your units and there is no need at all to grind and the money is enough to buy fate cards / cosmetics when needed. When i cannot play i log in for like 2-3 minutes , send my units questing and thats it. Also winning matches (which aren't many as it is closed beta) provides you with a nice income that increases as your level. I believe that when you win the first match in a day you get 600+ ducats (tip: it is applied also to friendly matches - so you can have your friend insta-quit and grab the cash) and if you play a lot the money isn't an issue. I agree with you that the entry level barrier for new players is a bit too high. I am fine to "level" my units by playing but i am NOT when their level one price is too high.

I'm already concerned about the microtransaction aspect of this game. Being able to buy leveled units with real money seems bad.

As long as you can have any unit in the game at any level for ingame Ducats - its good.
Bying certan units only for Cyans would be wrong - but as long as they can be bought for ingame Ducats - its ok

Hi,

Deep Blue wrote:I believe that when you win the first match in a day you get 600+ ducats (tip: it is applied also to friendly matches - so you can have your friend insta-quit and grab the cash) and if you play a lot the money isn't an issue.

there is actually an issue with challenge friend rewards. Rewards applied are MatchMaking rewards, so, yes you can get a strong first victory bonus, but you won't get it for your first matchmaking victory then.
This should be hotfixed soon, sorry.

Dragon_Warrior wrote:

I'm already concerned about the microtransaction aspect of this game. Being able to buy leveled units with real money seems bad.

As long as you can have any unit in the game at any level for ingame Ducats - its good.
Bying certan units only for Cyans would be wrong - but as long as they can be bought for ingame Ducats - its ok

This is an argument I never agreed with.
Just because you can grind out in-game currency and eventually get the same things, does not mean it's fair, or even ethical for that matter.
It is only fair if the in-game currency stays at a constant value relative to the cash currency.

I invite you to explain, if not for pure greed, why would they devalue your in-game currency as you progress in the game?

Ducats are your monetized reward for playing.
Time + Risk + Difficulty = Reward

What DoW is doing right now is refusing more and more of your reward as you progress to influence a need for cash investment.

My argument is that the above formula should be constant. When you play, you should get a reward that is relative to those elements. You shouldn't be punished because you didn't "spend enough money."

This is an argument I never agreed with.
Just because you can grind out in-game currency and eventually get the same things, does not mean it's fair, or even ethical for that matter.
It is only fair if the in-game currency stays at a constant value relative to the cash currency.

I invite you to explain, if not for pure greed, why would they devalue your in-game currency as you progress in the game?

Yes - they should make games for free - and add a cupcake...

1 - You dont knew Cyan price in $
2 - You dont knew final ducat prices
3 - You dont knew final ducat income

but you already said that it would be wrong

Pre 0.11 - Ducats income and prices was really OK
now its a little buggy with all this werid quests and low payments for higher diff trainings - but i hope that finaly it would be as before or better.