Patch 12.9 first impressions

What startles me, is how a Worg or a PoB can have the exact same ability always on thanks to a low level unit in their faction, but for these cases it seems okay for you guys. Just, not for the Golem. Also, raw damage of the Worg can go higher than that of the Golem (and it can be buffed in many ways), and it can actually use its pursuit movements, but the Worg is universally considered like crap while the Golem is perceived as overpowered. I get the high TOU / HB part, but in a meta where every basic unit can have the Ferocious attribute, it seems a bit unfair.

I finally had the ducats to buy a Worg and try it: the lvl1 version it is completely useless against the Golem (as I thought already before buying it), but it is also useless against more or less any enemy. As I highlight in another post, a lvl4 PoB is much stronger (higher MOV, same RES, higher DAM with Master Strike) and costs 60 PA less! (always too many to be really effective anyways).

In fact the combo you describe costs too much AP while the Golem has it immediately and it is only temporary. Moreover, "raw damage of the Worg can go higher than that of the Golem", this only if you buff it with Ylia's Wraith, Order and put him in Offensice Stance, with the result that then it will be automatically killed by the enemy due to its low RES in the following part of the turn (maybe with its Implacable and Bloodlust ability the lvl4 is more effective, however it will also cost 40 AP more!)

So, Worg IS crap atm, since it can suffer from the same weakness of the Golem but with a lower TOU (so it will be hurt faster and it will get faster the wound malus) and DAM in the standard case.

PS: After other trials of the KotH mode in Acheron and Behemoth maps, there are too many zones to score points! It always ends as a tie...

I finally had the ducats to buy a Worg and try it: the lvl1 version it is completely useless against the Golem (as I thought already before buying it), but it is also useless against more or less any enemy.

Please do not take what I am going to say as an offence but you did not understand what he is saying.

Please correct me if I am wrong Jigoku but the main point of that post (and that you are not getting) can be sintetized in this little sentece:

"Unit efficiency depends mostly on the current meta and not only on the unit itself".

By instance suppose tomorrow every1 starts play units with ferocious what would happen?
Worg would become far stronger than golem, suddenly, like WTF!?!?!?!
Then everyone would come in the forum saying stuff like:"ah the golem sucks ass Worg so OP instead ohmmygad ohmmygad devs suckysucky", lol ok maybe not exactly like that but similar.

I dont know about worg i am at 15k ducats and he is the next unit I want to try but I do not feel him as being useless, I simply feel him being one of those guys who does nothing until at a certain point where he gets in and kill 3 unit in 1 turn (exactly like tryndamere in teamfight LoL).
These kind of units need time and tactic but worg can do stuff that golem cannot even dream of.

This patch is the best patch that was made since I play this game because it forces a new meta, still persons didn't like it because they were forced to change their gamestyle.

By instance suppose tomorrow every1 starts play units with ferocious what would happen?
Worg would become far stronger than golem, suddenly, like WTF!?!?!?!

No, the Golem would still be better than the Worg, since it won't be killed so easily anyway. E.g., two Alahan archers lvl3 can kill a Worg easily in 2 turns top (with any ability! They don't need to take a specific one to kill it, while, as you highlighted, it is necessary for the Golem!)

I dont know about worg i am at 15k ducats and he is the next unit I want to try but I do not feel him as being useless, I simply feel him being one of those guys who does nothing until at a certain point where he gets in and kill 3 unit in 1 turn (exactly like tryndamere in teamfight LoL).
These kind of units need time and tactic but worg can do stuff that golem cannot even dream of.

As soon as you get the 30k ducats try it a bit and then you can effectively speak of its efficiency, before is just fanta-DoW. Golem can be played very well in the 400 AP range, Worg is suicide.
Moreover, in my post I specified Worg lvl1 and I compared it with a PoB that costs 60 AP less (I have another post where I descibed better all the advantages/disadvantages of both), as soon as I'll have time to get it to lvl3-4 I'll comment also on those lvls.

This patch is the best patch that was made since I play this game because it forces a new meta, still persons didn't like it because they were forced to change their gamestyle.

Never said I didn't like the patch! If you look to my first messages on it, I said that I found many improvements. Instead, I'm simply highlighting some new problems that arouse after it (e.g. Tiny Maps, Invisible Walls, "always Draw" KotH, AP balances that I - my opinion - think should be improved, etc.).

I also usually comment ONLY on units that I've had the opportunity to try directly or that I've confronted many times. I.e., I'm not saying anything on the Chimera, Grave Guardian, Guardian of the Runes, Fang Warrior, etc. since I've still not tried them directly and I've more or less never confronted them after the patch was implemented.

PS: As I'm advocating in many posts, If we had a "reset abilities" scroll it would be much more easy to test various abilities combinations: I know that I can delete and easily re-lvl up a Skeleton, but I can't do the same with a Worg, Golem or Chimera for example! So, if I get the "wrong" ability, then my point of view may be distorted afterwards...

No, the Golem would still be better than the Worg, since it won't be killed so easily anyway. E.g., two Alahan archers lvl3 can kill a Worg easily in 2 turns top (with any ability! They don't need to take a specific one to kill it, while, as you highlighted, it is necessary for the Golem!)

I didn't there is difference between a tactic made just to counter a single unit and current meta.
And no I really dont think it would still be better, you are not taking in consideration movement.

Movement is useful ONLY if you can kill the enemy to pursuit or to avoid Draw matches. The best part of the Golem is simply run and engage the enemy, NOT attack it! Then if the enemy attacks, then he'll die, while if it retreats, then you'll have a free opportunity attack!
Best feature of the Golem is the fact that hits hard simply after being put in contact with the enemy, NOT only when it attacks!!! (E.g.: 2 hits ALWAYS kill the enemy! Also if he flees or attack your Golem!!!!!!)

As soon as you'll have your Worg ready, add me as friend online and we can do a couple of matches (with or without the Golem as opponent, against Alahan, Ram or other Wolfens) and I'll show you the truth behind my words.

PS: Sorry about the previous message, after re-reading it it sounded too much harsh.

No, the Golem would still be better than the Worg, since it won't be killed so easily anyway. E.g., two Alahan archers lvl3 can kill a Worg easily in 2 turns top (with any ability! They don't need to take a specific one to kill it, while, as you highlighted, it is necessary for the Golem!)

I wont say golem/chimera/worg are op/shit or one is stronger than the other or w/e.I just want to point something.Each unit in this game have a role.The golem is a slow super tanky with super damages units.The chimera can be an epic nuker with descent damage/life and mobility.Worg could be a super assassin (i have yet to face a lvl 3 or more worg) able to kill 2 non legendary/elite unit in 1 turn.

It all come to playstyle/army comp and strats.A worg can kill 2 lions archer in 1 turn without off stance.Golem cant do that,even wiht off stance.The worg has 14 dodge,making it harder to get hit,and would take only 1 more damage than the golem (just look at the damage table and compare).The golem hight TOU +HB (270 ap) get counter by 1 archer with ferocious,that's all it take to have a good chance to win against a golem comp.

It all come to playstyle/army comp and strats.A worg can kill 2 lions archer in 1 turn without off stance.Golem cant do that,even wiht off stance.

Golem can kill one archer with off stance, however it is better simply to run and put it near them, so that if they flee they got in Critical.
More important: Golem can kill ANY unit with 2 attacks, Worg can't! And if you simply run always with the Golem, it is still perfectly efficient simply engaging the enemy. The Worg has to attack to be efficient.

Just try both and tell me what you think after USING them.

PS: I'll try to lvl my Worg to lvl3 and I'll tell more about it with the Hard-Boiled ability on (lvl2 atm)

Don't worry.
When I have my worg I will make some tests and then say what I figure out, but I doubt it will change my mind, maybe the worg needs some love but im sure that the golem must stay this way he is too important to damn keep everyone from playing swarm tactics like the 5 hb skeleton warriors of doom.
I would be even happier if worg and chimera could be the base of a composition that has specific pros and cons like golem, if you say worg is so week maybe it is true.

so...how can wolven realistically win vs a golem? I'm testing wolven elite units after patch (PoB and GG) with different comps and as the golem is the most common legendary around i feel im wasting my AP by having elites. The best damage i could dish was with a PoB+ylia's wrath+natural selection...which dealt 6+6 damages! impressive right? ..too bad the fun ends quickly even if it is surrounded by 5 of your units.

Examining wolven's golem counters:

Fang with ferocious: you need at least 3 with it and even then it might go wrong. They get ALWAYS feared and hit (we are talking about 100% chance here even if surrounded by 4 other units!!!). Best chance is to hit him with offensive dealing a whopping 18 damage...then you go with your second ferocious fang and you deal another amazing 18 hit (im optimistic here that all hits were succesful). At this point you better have a third fang or crossbowmen with ferocious or things will get ugly as the next golem activation will obliterate your 2 fangs as they got hit by the counter attack. Your remaining non ferocious units will deal a whopping 2 damage if lucky and attacking the golem in melee means getting killed on the next attack.

Crossbowmen with ferocious+harassment: beside the fact that i didn't see one of those guys since this new patch, they can be effective....but they are still 70 AP and probably you will need two of them.

Elite units: not a legendary killer unless supported by ylia's wrath but even then they are as performing as a fang warrior with ferocious...if you pop natural selection (!)

my issue with wolven is that compared to other races they require to invest many AP to be effective vs the golem. Ram can just use a e-touch paladin (100 AP more or less) , lion has the valkyries uber spell halving his health. Add that they have units that are flexible enough so that they dont have to be specifically golem killers...such as archers with aim and accuracy...deadly vs any unit in the game, not only the golem. Or even 2 skeleton archers with ferocious aren't a big investment...(80 AP vs the 140 AP of the crossbowman with harassment+fero)

I love how everyone (even devs) think that every lion player should have a valk with incarnation of justice in their setups. "Lion cannot complain about valk not being worth it cause valk has incarnation of justice". Then when the game is about to begin and you dont see a golem and you're like crap I just wasted 90AP on a unit not worth 50 unless you have archers (which i dont). Sure when you see a golem or worg you're but anything else and ur 90 ap down.

Though I think that nothing is harder in DoW than beating a golem with chastiment mages, I agree that wolfen are in need of a better golem counter (i played golem and wolfen were the easiest faction to beat) but to be honest everyone is in need of a better golem counter so whats the simpler option? Nerf Golem...

Also I think that we should be able to see the oponents company (all of it not the chosen ones for the match) before the match begins in the company selecction window, it would give us a chance to intelligently assume which setup the opponent wil field and try to counter it as opposed to just blindly guessing or knowing from having played them before. This would help us try to counter these legendaries builds with the very situational abilities you give us (incarnation of justice and for the light)