Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:38 pm
After playing all 3 factions for some time (quite short butall 3 manage to get into top 100)
Ill try to describe base unit and all of his Tiers (levels) and their choices.
By the rank:
Wolfen best rank - 24
Fang - Usefull unit with acceptable skill tree.
T1 - Nice unit for AP cost of other facions specials.
T2 - Two cheap skills makes T2 obvious choice. Blood Lust is definetly but its cost makes Fang a different unit type - so i personaly prefere Ruthles.
T3 - Both looks promising and both aren't obligatory - and its good
Crossbowman - Core unit in any warband
T1 - The base AP price is quite high but resonable. High DoD compensate the low ACC in Archer Vs Crossbowman situations and his base STR makes him great counter against any non Assauld unit - Legendares Included.
T2 - Werid Ap cost of Instinctive Firing makes it almost obvious choice for everyone that wants get his wolf to T3. Contact shoot is ok but definetly weaker than other choices. Accuracy is quite pricy compared to Instinctive but compared with Offensive stance can Kill quite many units with one activation (offensive stance).
IMO Instinctive firing should cost 10 or more becouse currently its to good for its price.
T3 - another obvious upgrade with both skill usefull but one ridiculusly cheap. Can anyone convince me to not taking Harrasment for 5 points? Assault Fire is not so usefull but still can generate 4 atacks in one round (offensive stance + pursuit shot after killing enemy). Both skill should cost more, maybe +3 for Assault and at least +15 for Harrasment.
Curent Crossbowman will exist only on T3 becouse its far better than T1 one.
And i would definetly lower Crosbowman Mov by 1 to 5.
Lonewolf
T1 - Quite ok - something like T3 Fang with alternative skills implemented.
T2 - Ring of Ice (it is suposed to work on whole army at one time or it should work on one unit only?) it obvious choice over totaly useless Counterstrike (Parry 7 and Counter ? srsly ?
)
T3 - once again Regeneration is only choice and propably it should cos 3 ap points more and have any resonable alternative.
T4 - I dont like 50/50 skills so Mortification looks best, while Internal Rage its mostly pointles when you have promal atack already and no option to cast two spells in one activation.
T5 - both cheap making T5 obviouse choice becoue +1Pow but say me - Why the hell he have Recovery (4mana per turn) while his spells cost 1-3 mana and he is Warrior-Mage ?
Hunter
T1 - The paradox is - why the unit better than War Lion and Gargoyle (+1 atack) is almost useles in wolfen faction? The answet is Mov6 - that is same as for all other ant Stronger/Tougher units.
T2 - both skills are usefull and Hunter on this level starts to be assault unit (but still other wolfens can do his work)
T3 - Each skill can be usefull but all of them are situationam and may be used or not. Its good IMO - becouse hunter can stay at T2.
T4 - Implacable can be usefull in offensive builds while Assasin skill seems to be bad from a concept. C3 assasin skill was more about minimal than maximal damage and partialy about chance to one hit kill (but this would be terrible in this game)
Guardian of the Runes
T1 - Yet another alternative Fang with sill usefull mainly on Harrasing Crossbowmans (but with them able to kill many units in one offensive stance)
T2 - Yet another useles counteratack for unit with Parry 9, maybe its better than for lonewolf but still useless. Hymn looks usefull for eliminating mages and archers with 3/4 hits possible. There should be one more miracle to choose from at this level.
T3 - Ambidex as an upgrade to useless skill is useless ;P so exalted is only option.
T4 - Both strong, while M. Way is situational but devastating and can be broken to some types od warbands. In case of Mortal Insolence - i didn't check it enough to have hard opinion.
T5 - Im not shre if Warrior-Monk needs Piety 2 but Bane Magicans (bug in description saying about +3 Vs all living units) can be devastating to all mage based warbands along with Middle Way.
Guardian of the Runes is damn cheap at T5 - so all upgrades are almost mandatory.
Grave Guardian
My favourite Wolfen.
T1 - For 93 points we get unit better than both Knight and Crane. Same PAR/TOU with one additional atack and +2Mov/DoD ... and all this for over 20 points less than Knight.
T2 - Both Bane and Ruthles looks nice and are cheap.
T3 - Taunt on unit with 15/14 looks more than ueful while Martyr is so much useless on ~100ap elite unit with faction having only one warrior-mont and no pure faithfull. While with pure faith unit it would be to strong if i correctly assume that Martyr hits him by 1DMG.
T4 - Implacable Vs Survival - Non random skill would be better to any player playing tactical game for tactics ;P But Implacable alone is quite usefull on such Tank/offensive unit as GG
T5 - both Skills are usefull and its first Counter Atack that can be bought and used in whole faction while War Fury Could be great along with Bane Living Dead and implacable.
PoB
More Offensive Version of elite unit.
T1 - Seems a little less usefull than T5 Grave Guardian with siimilar skills and less PAR/ToU
T2 - Both are usefull but Elusive seems more usefull on quite fragile Hard Hitter
T3 - Master Strike looks as the only resonable option - becouse PoB is far to fragile to use Taunt while he is mostly the main target for enemy units. different skill would be nice.
T4 - Hard Boiled seems to be most prcy ane weakest of all skill - especialy when Fierce will be buffed (propably to work as in C3 - that would PoB with such skill far way OP even with skill cos rised to 20)
T5 - War Fury - nice but having both Master Stike and War Furry is pointles and Master Strike is currently the only resonable choice.
Worg
I currently dont have free 27k silver to test it but when i faced it with my warbands - it was hard to kill but wolfen crossbowmans/skeleton fiercers was able to weaken him enough to be killed in hth - on maps other than Ancient Battlefield.
I hope that he will loose Fierce option when it will be changet to work as in C3.
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Lions best rank - 44
Swordsman - this unit definetly deserves a TOU bost.
T1 - weak Blocker with not good PAR and terrible TOU, quite cheap
T2 - Vivacity is cheapest but on unit with base DoD8 maks no difference, Fencer is better but +2ACC is not so importan with current high hit chances so only Parry seems to be realy useful rising parry of swordsman ocasionaly up to 14.
T3 - Taunt is currently only option while quick strike is totaly useless - the only situation i can imagine that would make QS usefull is killing a half dead enemy (1-5hp) a 15% more possible... but its still useless and i would gladlny see any Sequence (additional atack for -3 to ACC/STR) or War Fury instead of it.
Option of making Swordsman a visible fighters at T3 would be nice - becouse curretnly they are only blockers slightly better than fre morbid puppets.
Archer
T1 - Realy Nice and usefull distance unitt albe to deal real damage to most non elite units but useless against Legendaries.
T2 - Accuary is main choice that makes archers quite dangerous to elites but still not to legendaries, Elusive is alternative to staying at T1, while Sharpshoter looks to pricy for me, especialy when Valkiries can help deal with impossible targets.
T3 - Aim is nice (but pricy compared to wolfen and undead archers) and can deal with elites better - but still no Vs Legendaries while Double Shot is currently useless suicide atack but its already in nex patch fixlist.
Mage
T1 - High cost and useless option to cast 1 spell each two turns makes leveling not only mandatory but simply hard.
T2 - Choice is quite interesting - Bane of Impure is cheap and ocasional while Seal starts an pricy and offensive tree. I would add Legendary units to Bane list to be honest and maybe add any new spell - maybe something making Mage usefull at T2 without further leveling)
T3 - Its point when the unit starts to be resonable, but still not great. Botch choices are ok but with one locked down by T2 seal - its no choice at all.
T4 - Can anyone tell me what is the point of taking Aura of Hyperian? Maybe with otion to cast it on allay it would be somehow usefull but now its totaly pointless on unit that can't and shouldnt atack after casting spell. In case Chatisment and Scourge once again choice is based on T2 with make T4 no choice at all.
T5 - Obvious lev for each build - But choice is IMO blocked by damn high cost of Conscience
Current Primal atack spam is quite lame indeed but they should be more spells to choose from on this only pure mage.
Lion of War
Realy werid unit - that appeared first in Aarklash Legacy
11points cheaper than Hunter and having halt of his atacks
T1 - quite usefull unit for killing wounded enemies and runing after alone ranged units (currently not efective against wolfen crossbowmans but there is already info about fixed Opportunity hits that may solve this)
T2 - Mobile is only choice due to random nature od Survival intinct.
T3 - Flurry of Blows is realy annoying skill that makes STR of lion teribly low not only for duration of aditional atack but to the end of turn - making Opportunity Hits terribly weak. Two other abbilities are quite ocasional (and sneak atack -3dam makes it useless against most of elites and all legendaries)
T4 - Implacable - while for Wolfen Hunter/Grafe Guardian or Pob its a nice and usefull skil - for a unit with one Less Atack its mostly useles or at least weaker - especialy in same cost as for wolfens (5-6 should be ok), Assasin is another random and high cost skill that would be bad choice for most of tactical players.
Valkyrie
T1 - Dam8/Tou8 unit in cost of Wolfen Fang makes it rather weak fighter. Regeneration is nice buy she i only healer in game that can heal itself.
T2 - Favorable Auspices - is a reason why anyone would pay 63 points for such fragile figher - IMO miracle should cost 10 points more while T1 Valkyrie 10 points less , Counterstrike is so weak alternative that removing it would change nothing. Another alternative miracle would be nice.
T3 - both options are nice
T4 - Martial Inspiration working only on caster is rather weak on such fragile and high cost unit that should be keept far from fights. Incarnation of Justoce is currently the only Lion option to deal with Legendary units - but it cost a lot on already high cost unit and aditionaly its limited to one ussage per game - Mortal Insolence looks more usefull especialy when wolfen monk can follow it with two atacks.
T5 - Both looks usefull but Righteous adding aditional +1 to ACC looks rather pointles on unit that have already 13 (and its her only resonable combat stat)
Sparkling
Most useless unit in current version (someting similar to Morbid Pupet for 42 points) - one of most universal unit in C3
T1 - Dam5/Tou5 with no real flight makes Sparkling a 42ap cost skill for a Mage that grants him +3 mana 2-4 times - skill that becomes useless after mage death.
T2 - Ellusive is alternative to stay on T1 while Righteous is so much pointless on unit with Str5
T3 - Taunt/Sacrifice ... Taunt on cheap unit would be usefull, taunt on unit for 50ap and with TOU5 makes it even funier target... while sacryfice dealing 12dmg... something like 3 dmg less that most of Alachan/Acheron average spells? seriously? If it would be Natural 15 (no matter TOU of target) it would be ok but still a contact range makes it evem more terrible.
T4 - Feint... each atack=each of 1 atacks=50% for dealing 2dmg and additional -2Parry... pointles / Parry - maybe on unit with PAR 11-13 - bonus +3 would be nice... but 9+3 gives nothing.
T5 - 60ap for healing a unit in CONTACT and nothing more compared to Necro healing+necro full package of skills?
Maybe lets make this unit once again from nothing...
with base cost of 20 (for pure and fragile support/annoyer/blocker that gets Healing <it may be weaker> on lev 2-3 and Devotion on lev 4-5) or keep it cost but give it +2 base STR, real flight and fly-dive-charge bonus (like +1STR for each hex in line), +2 TOU and switch Devotion with Healing.
Knight
1st - Why the Knight isn't Mounted? http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... Bearer.jpg
2nd - If its about no model/animation - than why not Paladin/Royal Guard ? http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... lahan3.jpg http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... oriman.jpg that would be farr better material for unique figher that 'foot knight'
T1 - 115ap for Grave Guardian with -1Atack, -2 Mov, -3Dod and 20ap cost more... all of this for Hard Boiled and +1base STR - makes him perfect target for Crossbowmans/Feriocious archers and all those high dmg spells and mirracles...
T2 - Master Fencer and Parry are both nice and dhe choice is realy hard especialy when Parry 18 looks realy promising (at this level parry starts to count to be honest becouse before that there is still always more than 50% to be hit)
T3 - Knock Out looks nice, while Taunt ... is ANOTHER TAUNT in this facion... anything new/oryginal would be nice.
T4 - Righteous should be start skill for any Lion elite definatly, Implacable - same as for War Lion - quite useless for unit with only one atack, Bane Living Dead... another skill that great on Grave Guardian is werid and weaker on Lions HtH elite.
T5 - Counter Atack - Can anyone convince me that Knight isn't cuted vertison of Wolfen Grave Guardian - al the same skills without half of alternatives and aditionaly Counter Atack negating best T2 choice of Parry skill... No Sequence/Masterstrike/ nor anything interesting and unique.
Another Unit that should be reworked from the begining
Base paladin for 50-60 od Royal Gyard for 70-80ap would be great and usefull... and if you realy need to keep a Knight give him at least something like Discipline ---> +1 to Tacticar Roll at the begining of each turn.
Chimera
Im not a grat fan of making Alachan Queen a playble unit (and Chimera and lesser chimeras as enemies in Aarklash legacy was even worse) but indeed Lions dont have any Big unit except Knights or maybe Elementas of Light.
Edit
Ok i played her a bit and updating the thread
Edit 2
Lev4/5
T1 - He is realy quite nice - im amazed but aura can be usefull and its a nice free spell at the begining.
T2 - Both Guardian Angel and Counteratack looks nice - considering that Chimera will be atacked in HtH combat much longer than standard units Counterstrike seems to be best choice - it may be not great when looking into % calculations but considering number of atacks that she will take - it should be usefull once or twice at least.
Guardian should be usefull for support blockers or making archers/mages more resiliant. But after some unfortunate tests i see it realy hard to use with his cast distance (contat) and +2 Parry bonus is really small mostly - becouse lion base Parry stats are quite low - and only unit with moderate PAR (war lion) is currently one of ingame weakest units and investing a chimera into in isn't wise So Guardian Angel definetly needs a buff on it (additional +2DOD and +1 distance... and im not shure if not additional +2PAR... in C3 a DEF +2 was much more powerfull becouse tests was made D6 instead of D20 ) as a or more deffensive lion units
The last one - Celestail Scourge is nice in theory but 6 mana = two turns without casting a spell... so she cast it maybe once per game, twice if she will fight against another lions - its no good as for skill with highest cost.
T3 - Righteous (as for knight - it should be built in T1) and Counter Atack Upgrade is nice but once again its determined on T2 so ar builds onter than Counteratack have no choice at al and Righteous is realy annoying choice.
T4 - All three spells looks problematic -
*Charisment without focus seems not to strong... but its still much easier to cast than scourge
*Virtue will work nice only for elites and a warband with chimera and a Knight looks quite wrong, while in other cases spell would last only two turns and sometimes even only one atack. Current Force of Virtue lasting two turns have one and opne option only - Gives Chimera insane STR bonus... i never expected that this spell can be cast on herself. Now its even more 0-1 Its useless to cast it on allies while on Chimera its far to strong especialy combined with lev 2 counteratack and aura of hyperian - becouse one triggered counteratack can kill almost any unit... But once again as a support spell its rather weak when compared to direct damage spells and low WIL/STR stat of most units. Chimera shouldnt be allowet to cast FoV on herself but spell should last at least 3 turns on allies and maybe bonus should be less dependent on the WIL.
*Pilar looks realy usefull in group tactic but most of lions non elite units can be quite eficiently killed in 1-2 activation of formats higher thatn 500 ap and a ost of 6 is as for the scourge - realy high.
T5 - Bane Living dead should help eliminating some lesser in one turn with Ofensive Stance or deal some brute-forse damage in regular fights. Conscience on unit that casts one spell per turn (with high chance of support spell) is pointles and should be changed to smething more usefull or its price should be realy small.
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Acheron best rank - 75
Skeleton Warrior
T1 - Quite usefull but they could be 2 points cheaper on lev 1
T2 - Hard Boiled is overprived for such Cheap and low TOU unit, possesed is ok, while Feriocious should be +2/+4 points higher depending on T1 price
T3 - Quick strike is uselles in all T2 cases other than Feriocious when its only a Acc buff (it should be fixed), while Martyr is definetly to strong for a 1Ap skill that can be combined with Necro heal ... in faction that have strongest pure priest ingame.
Skeleton Archer - there was no sch unit in C2 up to C4 but i understand that replacing them by Skeleton centaurs would be problematic and final unit could be to similar to Wolfen Crossbowmans - But once again im not shure if all factions should have identical core units... a regenerating Zombie would fit Acheron much more.
T1 - Cheap counter to any low DoD units... maybe it could be 1 points cheaper at this lev but im not shure about that.
T2 - Possesed is nice alternative (especialy for archer) to stayng on T1 but still Feriocious is mostly first choice skill becouse being such great counter to all Elite/Legendary units - especialy with Offensive stance. I can't say anything about Fierce other than once again skill worth X points for one unit not exacly would work for the other in same price... but i don't knew how it would work in next patch so i'll update it in the future.
Personaly I think that making Feriocious cost 2-4 points would force Acheron players to choose different upgrades than this one only.
T3 - Both skills are (or will in case of double shoot that is currently even more ridiculus than for Alachan archer) ok, and slowing arrow should make this unit even greater elite/legendary counter... but as i see noone needs so hard counter currently while feriocious alone works fine and Wolfen hell high Dod stat makes (or at least will make after fix) ineficient against most of their unit at longer distances.
Necromancer
T1 - First T1 mage that indeed can be usefull without failing badly. Its so low basic cost makes it eficient on all resonable maps (on ancient battlefield he will be propably dead before end of second turn). To be honest im not shure it the base price shouldnt be higher for this unit.
T2 - Both spells are usefull and both quite cheap so leveling up to T2 is quite obvious so making their cost higher would be an alternative to rising cost of T1
T3 - Recovery is moslty the main choice allowing the cast of both puppets in first turn especialy for only 3ap. Focus is nice but binding it to strict build limits it badly (on the other hand death wave with recovery wolud be propably to strong)
T4 - Life Drain looks quite weak but with a lot of mana still can be last chance spell for a Necro but with higher base cost at T1 or T2 - Drain shuold be a bit cheaper propably. Death Wave is great with 3 necro builds and can deal realy great amounts of damage - but high cos of the spell makes lower ap armies quite problematic to build - especialy when currently lower ap player forces th format. Last ot the spells is Puterfaction that is mostly quite ocasionl but in right hand a devatating spell (information about auto-killing a Tou 0 unit should be definetly added - but its ap cost is ok) the whole thing about the spell is to fully controll the map and watch as the assault units die.
T5 - as for all mages last upgrade is obvious for T4, but while mastery of arcana is most usefull upgrade for each necro with Respite of the Dead, Conscience is once again mostly pointles, except maybe to Death Wave build - but the final cost of such Necro would be hight as hell so alternative would be usefull.
Gargoyle
Weaker version of War Lion that is Weaker version of each wolfen... makes it quite pointless at the moment especialy with facion loosing the "discipline" test most of times.
T1 - Flight would be fun if it would be real flight able to crossing other units (but real-real flight similar to C3 - with units that can be taken down only by archers/magic while in air would be even better) - Currently unit is pointles when loosing na initiative is almost certan.
T2 - Elusive is ok - while Hard Boiled is once again pointless for mor than 4-6, maybe 8ap on unit with base Tou 6
T3 - Flurry is once again (same as for the lion) useless becouse causing weaker counteratacks. Maybe higher base Str makes it a bit better but the whole concetion its stil wrong. Sneak atack with base STR 15 may work for finishing atacks but its still quite werid with its drawback. Dive bomb - Str 17 is ok but the prive of the skill is far to high.
T4 - Assasin is once again random skill while Implacable is nice but for such unit it could be a bit cheaper.
Priest
Most special unit in whole Dogs of War... and im not shure if not to special.
T1 - Bad Omen - first of the 'specials' list. Miracle that normaly would be ok and interesting but it can hard counter quite many units twice or more Priest cost. But let it be - normaly T1 priest dies quite quickly and can't do more mess.
T2 - Its when the carnival begins - Inversion for 3ap beats all other alternatives simply becouse it breaks the game rules only for 1 favor point. In smaller games and for newbie players its nothing big - but both in king of the hill and VIP games it can do realy bad things. Fortunatly 3 Priests with Inversion wouldn't be three times stronger than one but still it definetly shouldnt be cheapest miracle on T2 and maybe it should go up to T4
T3 - Piety is realy strong skill for each Iconoclast - especialy when combined with Loyal paladins - while Elnightened is nice but offensive spell exist only on T4 so it forces further upgrades.
T4 - Both miracles are powerfull but Erosion (while much stronger) is too ocasional compared to Aggresion (price difference balances it quite good - but still casting Erosion more than once per turn will be to strong counter for mages tith its range of 8.
T5 - Exalted is once again obviously better than staying T4 while propably Priest is first unit that can take Conscience and try to be cost efective.
Black Paladin
T1 - First non Wolfen warion on this list that can be eficint with HtH fighting propably - especialy buffed by its own miracle.
T2 - Errosion looks like obvious choice while aura seems to be usefull only as a mass puppet support - while puppets are mostly scatteret on whole map. Additionaly spells and miracles on different units shouldnt be doublr (peirst-paladin)
T3 - Both skills are ok and both are realy usefull maing T3 a realy hard choice - and its realy good.
T4 - Once again we have a hard choice with Exhausting Touch that once again seems like messing with game mechanic quite to much (especialy as a hell hard counter to elite/legendaries). Somatic Transfer is nice and counter->ambidex second time at this list looks resonable.
T5 - Nice
Crane
Once again - In Alachan Knight is much weaker version od Wolfen Grave Guardian - and Crane Warrior is weaker version of a Knight...
T1 - unit as an idea is quite nice but a unit itself is far to weak.
T2 - Nice choice betwen going into much higher cost or almost staying at T1.
T3 - Another useles counterstrike and quite usefull taunt - nicely combined with the fierce on t4
T4 - Brutal is even more random version of assasin and not fit into non-random damage feature while Implacable is i see quite standard for heavy fighters - but fal less usefull for non wolfens.
T5 - Master Strike with base Acc 11 is quite risky and taking risky actions by elite model isn't good
Golem
I didn't play Golem by my own but its first legendary that i meet in PvP - and I see it most "0:1" from all of Legendaries. Is simply Owns or dies owned. Tou 20 + Hard Boiled makes him immune for many Lion or even Wolfen warbands, while DoD 7 makes him funny target for all Acheron with Feriocious Archers, Im not shure how it works Vs Wolfen Crossbowmans but it seems that they deal only up to 6 Dmg per Natural Selection Shoot so only fully upgraded PoB/Worg can try to deal with it eficiently while crossbowmans can only Harras him (or his player) to death.
T1 - on this lev it looks almost ok
T2 - maybe not so usefull but cheap and in way to T3
T3 - Hard Boiled is definetly Obvious choice - while for some unit (skeleton warrior) its cost is hith - than for golem its nothing but funny.
T4 -both usefull
T5 - Master Strike looks like overkill for me but propably can be usefull with T4 rapidity to kill almost any unit with two shots.
Ill try to describe base unit and all of his Tiers (levels) and their choices.
By the rank:
Wolfen best rank - 24
Fang - Usefull unit with acceptable skill tree.
T1 - Nice unit for AP cost of other facions specials.
T2 - Two cheap skills makes T2 obvious choice. Blood Lust is definetly but its cost makes Fang a different unit type - so i personaly prefere Ruthles.
T3 - Both looks promising and both aren't obligatory - and its good
Crossbowman - Core unit in any warband
T1 - The base AP price is quite high but resonable. High DoD compensate the low ACC in Archer Vs Crossbowman situations and his base STR makes him great counter against any non Assauld unit - Legendares Included.
T2 - Werid Ap cost of Instinctive Firing makes it almost obvious choice for everyone that wants get his wolf to T3. Contact shoot is ok but definetly weaker than other choices. Accuracy is quite pricy compared to Instinctive but compared with Offensive stance can Kill quite many units with one activation (offensive stance).
IMO Instinctive firing should cost 10 or more becouse currently its to good for its price.
T3 - another obvious upgrade with both skill usefull but one ridiculusly cheap. Can anyone convince me to not taking Harrasment for 5 points? Assault Fire is not so usefull but still can generate 4 atacks in one round (offensive stance + pursuit shot after killing enemy). Both skill should cost more, maybe +3 for Assault and at least +15 for Harrasment.
Curent Crossbowman will exist only on T3 becouse its far better than T1 one.
And i would definetly lower Crosbowman Mov by 1 to 5.
Lonewolf
T1 - Quite ok - something like T3 Fang with alternative skills implemented.
T2 - Ring of Ice (it is suposed to work on whole army at one time or it should work on one unit only?) it obvious choice over totaly useless Counterstrike (Parry 7 and Counter ? srsly ?
)T3 - once again Regeneration is only choice and propably it should cos 3 ap points more and have any resonable alternative.
T4 - I dont like 50/50 skills so Mortification looks best, while Internal Rage its mostly pointles when you have promal atack already and no option to cast two spells in one activation.
T5 - both cheap making T5 obviouse choice becoue +1Pow but say me - Why the hell he have Recovery (4mana per turn) while his spells cost 1-3 mana and he is Warrior-Mage ?
Hunter
T1 - The paradox is - why the unit better than War Lion and Gargoyle (+1 atack) is almost useles in wolfen faction? The answet is Mov6 - that is same as for all other ant Stronger/Tougher units.
T2 - both skills are usefull and Hunter on this level starts to be assault unit (but still other wolfens can do his work)
T3 - Each skill can be usefull but all of them are situationam and may be used or not. Its good IMO - becouse hunter can stay at T2.
T4 - Implacable can be usefull in offensive builds while Assasin skill seems to be bad from a concept. C3 assasin skill was more about minimal than maximal damage and partialy about chance to one hit kill (but this would be terrible in this game)
Guardian of the Runes
T1 - Yet another alternative Fang with sill usefull mainly on Harrasing Crossbowmans (but with them able to kill many units in one offensive stance)
T2 - Yet another useles counteratack for unit with Parry 9, maybe its better than for lonewolf but still useless. Hymn looks usefull for eliminating mages and archers with 3/4 hits possible. There should be one more miracle to choose from at this level.
T3 - Ambidex as an upgrade to useless skill is useless ;P so exalted is only option.
T4 - Both strong, while M. Way is situational but devastating and can be broken to some types od warbands. In case of Mortal Insolence - i didn't check it enough to have hard opinion.
T5 - Im not shre if Warrior-Monk needs Piety 2 but Bane Magicans (bug in description saying about +3 Vs all living units) can be devastating to all mage based warbands along with Middle Way.
Guardian of the Runes is damn cheap at T5 - so all upgrades are almost mandatory.
Grave Guardian
My favourite Wolfen.
T1 - For 93 points we get unit better than both Knight and Crane. Same PAR/TOU with one additional atack and +2Mov/DoD ... and all this for over 20 points less than Knight.
T2 - Both Bane and Ruthles looks nice and are cheap.
T3 - Taunt on unit with 15/14 looks more than ueful while Martyr is so much useless on ~100ap elite unit with faction having only one warrior-mont and no pure faithfull. While with pure faith unit it would be to strong if i correctly assume that Martyr hits him by 1DMG.
T4 - Implacable Vs Survival - Non random skill would be better to any player playing tactical game for tactics ;P But Implacable alone is quite usefull on such Tank/offensive unit as GG
T5 - both Skills are usefull and its first Counter Atack that can be bought and used in whole faction while War Fury Could be great along with Bane Living Dead and implacable.
PoB
More Offensive Version of elite unit.
T1 - Seems a little less usefull than T5 Grave Guardian with siimilar skills and less PAR/ToU
T2 - Both are usefull but Elusive seems more usefull on quite fragile Hard Hitter
T3 - Master Strike looks as the only resonable option - becouse PoB is far to fragile to use Taunt while he is mostly the main target for enemy units. different skill would be nice.
T4 - Hard Boiled seems to be most prcy ane weakest of all skill - especialy when Fierce will be buffed (propably to work as in C3 - that would PoB with such skill far way OP even with skill cos rised to 20)
T5 - War Fury - nice but having both Master Stike and War Furry is pointles and Master Strike is currently the only resonable choice.
Worg
I currently dont have free 27k silver to test it but when i faced it with my warbands - it was hard to kill but wolfen crossbowmans/skeleton fiercers was able to weaken him enough to be killed in hth - on maps other than Ancient Battlefield.
I hope that he will loose Fierce option when it will be changet to work as in C3.
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Lions best rank - 44
Swordsman - this unit definetly deserves a TOU bost.
T1 - weak Blocker with not good PAR and terrible TOU, quite cheap
T2 - Vivacity is cheapest but on unit with base DoD8 maks no difference, Fencer is better but +2ACC is not so importan with current high hit chances so only Parry seems to be realy useful rising parry of swordsman ocasionaly up to 14.
T3 - Taunt is currently only option while quick strike is totaly useless - the only situation i can imagine that would make QS usefull is killing a half dead enemy (1-5hp) a 15% more possible... but its still useless and i would gladlny see any Sequence (additional atack for -3 to ACC/STR) or War Fury instead of it.
Option of making Swordsman a visible fighters at T3 would be nice - becouse curretnly they are only blockers slightly better than fre morbid puppets.
Archer
T1 - Realy Nice and usefull distance unitt albe to deal real damage to most non elite units but useless against Legendaries.
T2 - Accuary is main choice that makes archers quite dangerous to elites but still not to legendaries, Elusive is alternative to staying at T1, while Sharpshoter looks to pricy for me, especialy when Valkiries can help deal with impossible targets.
T3 - Aim is nice (but pricy compared to wolfen and undead archers) and can deal with elites better - but still no Vs Legendaries while Double Shot is currently useless suicide atack but its already in nex patch fixlist.
Mage
T1 - High cost and useless option to cast 1 spell each two turns makes leveling not only mandatory but simply hard.
T2 - Choice is quite interesting - Bane of Impure is cheap and ocasional while Seal starts an pricy and offensive tree. I would add Legendary units to Bane list to be honest and maybe add any new spell - maybe something making Mage usefull at T2 without further leveling)
T3 - Its point when the unit starts to be resonable, but still not great. Botch choices are ok but with one locked down by T2 seal - its no choice at all.
T4 - Can anyone tell me what is the point of taking Aura of Hyperian? Maybe with otion to cast it on allay it would be somehow usefull but now its totaly pointless on unit that can't and shouldnt atack after casting spell. In case Chatisment and Scourge once again choice is based on T2 with make T4 no choice at all.
T5 - Obvious lev for each build - But choice is IMO blocked by damn high cost of Conscience
Current Primal atack spam is quite lame indeed but they should be more spells to choose from on this only pure mage.
Lion of War
Realy werid unit - that appeared first in Aarklash Legacy
11points cheaper than Hunter and having halt of his atacks
T1 - quite usefull unit for killing wounded enemies and runing after alone ranged units (currently not efective against wolfen crossbowmans but there is already info about fixed Opportunity hits that may solve this)
T2 - Mobile is only choice due to random nature od Survival intinct.
T3 - Flurry of Blows is realy annoying skill that makes STR of lion teribly low not only for duration of aditional atack but to the end of turn - making Opportunity Hits terribly weak. Two other abbilities are quite ocasional (and sneak atack -3dam makes it useless against most of elites and all legendaries)
T4 - Implacable - while for Wolfen Hunter/Grafe Guardian or Pob its a nice and usefull skil - for a unit with one Less Atack its mostly useles or at least weaker - especialy in same cost as for wolfens (5-6 should be ok), Assasin is another random and high cost skill that would be bad choice for most of tactical players.
Valkyrie
T1 - Dam8/Tou8 unit in cost of Wolfen Fang makes it rather weak fighter. Regeneration is nice buy she i only healer in game that can heal itself.
T2 - Favorable Auspices - is a reason why anyone would pay 63 points for such fragile figher - IMO miracle should cost 10 points more while T1 Valkyrie 10 points less , Counterstrike is so weak alternative that removing it would change nothing. Another alternative miracle would be nice.
T3 - both options are nice
T4 - Martial Inspiration working only on caster is rather weak on such fragile and high cost unit that should be keept far from fights. Incarnation of Justoce is currently the only Lion option to deal with Legendary units - but it cost a lot on already high cost unit and aditionaly its limited to one ussage per game - Mortal Insolence looks more usefull especialy when wolfen monk can follow it with two atacks.
T5 - Both looks usefull but Righteous adding aditional +1 to ACC looks rather pointles on unit that have already 13 (and its her only resonable combat stat)
Sparkling
Most useless unit in current version (someting similar to Morbid Pupet for 42 points) - one of most universal unit in C3
T1 - Dam5/Tou5 with no real flight makes Sparkling a 42ap cost skill for a Mage that grants him +3 mana 2-4 times - skill that becomes useless after mage death.
T2 - Ellusive is alternative to stay on T1 while Righteous is so much pointless on unit with Str5
T3 - Taunt/Sacrifice ... Taunt on cheap unit would be usefull, taunt on unit for 50ap and with TOU5 makes it even funier target... while sacryfice dealing 12dmg... something like 3 dmg less that most of Alachan/Acheron average spells? seriously? If it would be Natural 15 (no matter TOU of target) it would be ok but still a contact range makes it evem more terrible.
T4 - Feint... each atack=each of 1 atacks=50% for dealing 2dmg and additional -2Parry... pointles / Parry - maybe on unit with PAR 11-13 - bonus +3 would be nice... but 9+3 gives nothing.
T5 - 60ap for healing a unit in CONTACT and nothing more compared to Necro healing+necro full package of skills?
Maybe lets make this unit once again from nothing...
with base cost of 20 (for pure and fragile support/annoyer/blocker that gets Healing <it may be weaker> on lev 2-3 and Devotion on lev 4-5) or keep it cost but give it +2 base STR, real flight and fly-dive-charge bonus (like +1STR for each hex in line), +2 TOU and switch Devotion with Healing.
Knight
1st - Why the Knight isn't Mounted? http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... Bearer.jpg
2nd - If its about no model/animation - than why not Paladin/Royal Guard ? http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... lahan3.jpg http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac34 ... oriman.jpg that would be farr better material for unique figher that 'foot knight'
T1 - 115ap for Grave Guardian with -1Atack, -2 Mov, -3Dod and 20ap cost more... all of this for Hard Boiled and +1base STR - makes him perfect target for Crossbowmans/Feriocious archers and all those high dmg spells and mirracles...
T2 - Master Fencer and Parry are both nice and dhe choice is realy hard especialy when Parry 18 looks realy promising (at this level parry starts to count to be honest becouse before that there is still always more than 50% to be hit)
T3 - Knock Out looks nice, while Taunt ... is ANOTHER TAUNT in this facion... anything new/oryginal would be nice.
T4 - Righteous should be start skill for any Lion elite definatly, Implacable - same as for War Lion - quite useless for unit with only one atack, Bane Living Dead... another skill that great on Grave Guardian is werid and weaker on Lions HtH elite.
T5 - Counter Atack - Can anyone convince me that Knight isn't cuted vertison of Wolfen Grave Guardian - al the same skills without half of alternatives and aditionaly Counter Atack negating best T2 choice of Parry skill... No Sequence/Masterstrike/ nor anything interesting and unique.
Another Unit that should be reworked from the begining
Base paladin for 50-60 od Royal Gyard for 70-80ap would be great and usefull... and if you realy need to keep a Knight give him at least something like Discipline ---> +1 to Tacticar Roll at the begining of each turn.
Chimera
Im not a grat fan of making Alachan Queen a playble unit (and Chimera and lesser chimeras as enemies in Aarklash legacy was even worse) but indeed Lions dont have any Big unit except Knights or maybe Elementas of Light.
Edit
Ok i played her a bit and updating the thread
Edit 2
Lev4/5
T1 - He is realy quite nice - im amazed but aura can be usefull and its a nice free spell at the begining.
T2 - Both Guardian Angel and Counteratack looks nice - considering that Chimera will be atacked in HtH combat much longer than standard units Counterstrike seems to be best choice - it may be not great when looking into % calculations but considering number of atacks that she will take - it should be usefull once or twice at least.
Guardian should be usefull for support blockers or making archers/mages more resiliant. But after some unfortunate tests i see it realy hard to use with his cast distance (contat) and +2 Parry bonus is really small mostly - becouse lion base Parry stats are quite low - and only unit with moderate PAR (war lion) is currently one of ingame weakest units and investing a chimera into in isn't wise
So Guardian Angel definetly needs a buff on it (additional +2DOD and +1 distance... and im not shure if not additional +2PAR... in C3 a DEF +2 was much more powerfull becouse tests was made D6 instead of D20 ) as a or more deffensive lion units The last one - Celestail Scourge is nice in theory but 6 mana = two turns without casting a spell... so she cast it maybe once per game, twice if she will fight against another lions - its no good as for skill with highest cost.
T3 - Righteous (as for knight - it should be built in T1) and Counter Atack Upgrade is nice but once again its determined on T2 so ar builds onter than Counteratack have no choice at al and Righteous is realy annoying choice.
T4 - All three spells looks problematic -
*Charisment without focus seems not to strong... but its still much easier to cast than scourge
*Virtue will work nice only for elites and a warband with chimera and a Knight looks quite wrong, while in other cases spell would last only two turns and sometimes even only one atack. Current Force of Virtue lasting two turns have one and opne option only - Gives Chimera insane STR bonus... i never expected that this spell can be cast on herself. Now its even more 0-1 Its useless to cast it on allies while on Chimera its far to strong especialy combined with lev 2 counteratack and aura of hyperian - becouse one triggered counteratack can kill almost any unit... But once again as a support spell its rather weak when compared to direct damage spells and low WIL/STR stat of most units. Chimera shouldnt be allowet to cast FoV on herself but spell should last at least 3 turns on allies and maybe bonus should be less dependent on the WIL.
*Pilar looks realy usefull in group tactic but most of lions non elite units can be quite eficiently killed in 1-2 activation of formats higher thatn 500 ap and a ost of 6 is as for the scourge - realy high.
T5 - Bane Living dead should help eliminating some lesser in one turn with Ofensive Stance or deal some brute-forse damage in regular fights. Conscience on unit that casts one spell per turn (with high chance of support spell) is pointles and should be changed to smething more usefull or its price should be realy small.
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Acheron best rank - 75
Skeleton Warrior
T1 - Quite usefull but they could be 2 points cheaper on lev 1
T2 - Hard Boiled is overprived for such Cheap and low TOU unit, possesed is ok, while Feriocious should be +2/+4 points higher depending on T1 price
T3 - Quick strike is uselles in all T2 cases other than Feriocious when its only a Acc buff (it should be fixed), while Martyr is definetly to strong for a 1Ap skill that can be combined with Necro heal ... in faction that have strongest pure priest ingame.
Skeleton Archer - there was no sch unit in C2 up to C4 but i understand that replacing them by Skeleton centaurs would be problematic and final unit could be to similar to Wolfen Crossbowmans - But once again im not shure if all factions should have identical core units... a regenerating Zombie would fit Acheron much more.
T1 - Cheap counter to any low DoD units... maybe it could be 1 points cheaper at this lev but im not shure about that.
T2 - Possesed is nice alternative (especialy for archer) to stayng on T1 but still Feriocious is mostly first choice skill becouse being such great counter to all Elite/Legendary units - especialy with Offensive stance. I can't say anything about Fierce other than once again skill worth X points for one unit not exacly would work for the other in same price... but i don't knew how it would work in next patch so i'll update it in the future.
Personaly I think that making Feriocious cost 2-4 points would force Acheron players to choose different upgrades than this one only.
T3 - Both skills are (or will in case of double shoot that is currently even more ridiculus than for Alachan archer) ok, and slowing arrow should make this unit even greater elite/legendary counter... but as i see noone needs so hard counter currently while feriocious alone works fine and Wolfen hell high Dod stat makes (or at least will make after fix) ineficient against most of their unit at longer distances.
Necromancer
T1 - First T1 mage that indeed can be usefull without failing badly. Its so low basic cost makes it eficient on all resonable maps (on ancient battlefield he will be propably dead before end of second turn). To be honest im not shure it the base price shouldnt be higher for this unit.
T2 - Both spells are usefull and both quite cheap so leveling up to T2 is quite obvious so making their cost higher would be an alternative to rising cost of T1
T3 - Recovery is moslty the main choice allowing the cast of both puppets in first turn especialy for only 3ap. Focus is nice but binding it to strict build limits it badly (on the other hand death wave with recovery wolud be propably to strong)
T4 - Life Drain looks quite weak but with a lot of mana still can be last chance spell for a Necro but with higher base cost at T1 or T2 - Drain shuold be a bit cheaper propably. Death Wave is great with 3 necro builds and can deal realy great amounts of damage - but high cos of the spell makes lower ap armies quite problematic to build - especialy when currently lower ap player forces th format. Last ot the spells is Puterfaction that is mostly quite ocasionl but in right hand a devatating spell (information about auto-killing a Tou 0 unit should be definetly added - but its ap cost is ok) the whole thing about the spell is to fully controll the map and watch as the assault units die.
T5 - as for all mages last upgrade is obvious for T4, but while mastery of arcana is most usefull upgrade for each necro with Respite of the Dead, Conscience is once again mostly pointles, except maybe to Death Wave build - but the final cost of such Necro would be hight as hell so alternative would be usefull.
Gargoyle
Weaker version of War Lion that is Weaker version of each wolfen... makes it quite pointless at the moment especialy with facion loosing the "discipline" test most of times.
T1 - Flight would be fun if it would be real flight able to crossing other units (but real-real flight similar to C3 - with units that can be taken down only by archers/magic while in air would be even better) - Currently unit is pointles when loosing na initiative is almost certan.
T2 - Elusive is ok - while Hard Boiled is once again pointless for mor than 4-6, maybe 8ap on unit with base Tou 6
T3 - Flurry is once again (same as for the lion) useless becouse causing weaker counteratacks. Maybe higher base Str makes it a bit better but the whole concetion its stil wrong. Sneak atack with base STR 15 may work for finishing atacks but its still quite werid with its drawback. Dive bomb - Str 17 is ok but the prive of the skill is far to high.
T4 - Assasin is once again random skill while Implacable is nice but for such unit it could be a bit cheaper.
Priest
Most special unit in whole Dogs of War... and im not shure if not to special.
T1 - Bad Omen - first of the 'specials' list. Miracle that normaly would be ok and interesting but it can hard counter quite many units twice or more Priest cost. But let it be - normaly T1 priest dies quite quickly and can't do more mess.
T2 - Its when the carnival begins - Inversion for 3ap beats all other alternatives simply becouse it breaks the game rules only for 1 favor point. In smaller games and for newbie players its nothing big - but both in king of the hill and VIP games it can do realy bad things. Fortunatly 3 Priests with Inversion wouldn't be three times stronger than one but still it definetly shouldnt be cheapest miracle on T2 and maybe it should go up to T4
T3 - Piety is realy strong skill for each Iconoclast - especialy when combined with Loyal paladins - while Elnightened is nice but offensive spell exist only on T4 so it forces further upgrades.
T4 - Both miracles are powerfull but Erosion (while much stronger) is too ocasional compared to Aggresion (price difference balances it quite good - but still casting Erosion more than once per turn will be to strong counter for mages tith its range of 8.
T5 - Exalted is once again obviously better than staying T4 while propably Priest is first unit that can take Conscience and try to be cost efective.
Black Paladin
T1 - First non Wolfen warion on this list that can be eficint with HtH fighting propably - especialy buffed by its own miracle.
T2 - Errosion looks like obvious choice while aura seems to be usefull only as a mass puppet support - while puppets are mostly scatteret on whole map. Additionaly spells and miracles on different units shouldnt be doublr (peirst-paladin)
T3 - Both skills are ok and both are realy usefull maing T3 a realy hard choice - and its realy good.
T4 - Once again we have a hard choice with Exhausting Touch that once again seems like messing with game mechanic quite to much (especialy as a hell hard counter to elite/legendaries). Somatic Transfer is nice and counter->ambidex second time at this list looks resonable.
T5 - Nice
Crane
Once again - In Alachan Knight is much weaker version od Wolfen Grave Guardian - and Crane Warrior is weaker version of a Knight...
T1 - unit as an idea is quite nice but a unit itself is far to weak.
T2 - Nice choice betwen going into much higher cost or almost staying at T1.
T3 - Another useles counterstrike and quite usefull taunt - nicely combined with the fierce on t4
T4 - Brutal is even more random version of assasin and not fit into non-random damage feature while Implacable is i see quite standard for heavy fighters - but fal less usefull for non wolfens.
T5 - Master Strike with base Acc 11 is quite risky and taking risky actions by elite model isn't good
Golem
I didn't play Golem by my own but its first legendary that i meet in PvP - and I see it most "0:1" from all of Legendaries. Is simply Owns or dies owned. Tou 20 + Hard Boiled makes him immune for many Lion or even Wolfen warbands, while DoD 7 makes him funny target for all Acheron with Feriocious Archers, Im not shure how it works Vs Wolfen Crossbowmans but it seems that they deal only up to 6 Dmg per Natural Selection Shoot so only fully upgraded PoB/Worg can try to deal with it eficiently while crossbowmans can only Harras him (or his player) to death.
T1 - on this lev it looks almost ok
T2 - maybe not so usefull but cheap and in way to T3
T3 - Hard Boiled is definetly Obvious choice - while for some unit (skeleton warrior) its cost is hith - than for golem its nothing but funny.
T4 -both usefull
T5 - Master Strike looks like overkill for me but propably can be usefull with T4 rapidity to kill almost any unit with two shots.
Last edited by Dragon_Warrior on Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:43 am, edited 15 times in total.
ign: Draconnor, Cynwall player, 23 years in computer games, 14 years in battle games, 8 years in Confrontation Universe, 4 years of making own battle games.
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