Legendary units

what is your impression about elite units? So far i encountered only the Worg and the undead one. I never won a game vs those elite units as in all the cases the player EXPLOITS the system by queueing only with the elite unit + 1 archer lvl 1 in order to minimize as possibe their AP ---> you must minimize yours as well. I think that a "regular" 300-250 AP warband doesn't stand a chance (or requires a big degree of luck) vs a warband with an elite monster.

First time i was having a wolven warband (starting one let's say) that was 100% melee based vs the undead abomination....impossible to win even when you charge it and you surround it with 3 guys . I guess these kind of games are boring for BOTH players.

Second time i was playing with my lion warband, which before meeting the Worg and his fellow crossbowman had a nice 9 victories and 2 losses. First match , it was ALMOST close. He basically didn't use his crossbow guy thanks to my good positioning and he only charged with the worg in the middle of my 4 units . My knight of the lion tried to root him as long as possible but was overpowered very quickly...from then on my archers and mage got obliterated. Second match was on the very little map...same guy. That one was not even remotely fun (for both i guess) as i had a happy worg in the face of my mage on the first turn. I even managed to move the mage away unscathed with defensive stance, just for him to die oneshotted by the crossbow wolven (no covers...sigh).



all in all i think you should either increase the elite units AP or nerf them slightly or require a minimum warband size of 3 units so that the system cannot be exploited. It is ok to have a uber unit at the price of having less units to control but it cannot win alone vs a warband. My feeling is that it will break the meta AND frustrate all the new players (nothing worse than seeing you have no chance whatsoever to make you quit a game for good). I think elite units should be fun, not a source of frustration for new players.

EDIT: "finally" had a match vs the Chimera. I felt like i had a chance and so far it seems the most balanced super elite. I still don't understand how is it possible that you can use ONLY 1 super elite unit as a warband (paradox?)

[Jigoku]

Thanks for your feedback, Deep Blue.

From the team point of view, we see way more problems with some known exploits than with hard and cold, AP balance.

We are making silent fixes to prevent these exploits patch after patch, because we take these matters very seriously.

There is also the problem of the very small map, that was originally intended for new players only.
We plan to fix this soon, so that Legendary units may not be so much of a problem from then on.

Additionnally, we did make some changes in the matchmaking formulas to prevent inexperienced players to be matched against very skilled players with powerful armies. Unfortunately, because we are still in the closed beta process, there are not that many players to play with, and that means either very long queues or sometimes unbalanced games.

On a last note, I do assure you that we do test these specific units very extensively.
While these tests revealed that they might need a moderate tweak in their AP cost, we also found out that often times, even the lowest tier units stood their chances against these monsters, provided they are enough (I'm considering the case where both armies share the same amount of AP on each side, and that no exploit was used on the compensation mechanics).
Some very specific, low-to-mid level builds can even chew legendary units with surprising ease.
The 3rd tutorial provides some hints about how to do that, but there are really a great deal of options out there to deal with them, especially if they are on their own.

Of course, to be perfectly fair, all balance topics should need to take into account the different players' wits (and daring mindsets) for each match. And their relations with Lady Luck, too, which can help a bit against these monsters

thanks for your immediate feedback i really appreciate it

I'd to agree with the designer here. Legendary unit (not elite ) are ok in thei skill and power and AP cost, exploiting are more because of map size and unit number. (what about a min of 3 or better4 unit for warband?)

I never use a legendary unit but faced them a lot right now and managed to counter them quite well when you work around your warband. Ferocious skill is one of the best vs them, slowing or immobilizing movement skill also work well, an ability from valkyrie that set dmg output and input to 15 is also great vs legendary (i never go out without a valkyrie with that skill).

Not tested with wolfen (ehi i still wait for those cyan to buy third army slot ) but probably also them have their jolly to play vs legendary steamroller.

so today i had 3 matches again the worg. I managed to win 1 (very close) out of 3.

I think it is not even possible to win a VIP match vs the Worg, especially with a down scaled army (300 AP). I admit i did the mistake to forget he can do twice a pursuit movement but even that would have let me live 1 more turn. On the other hand i finally found it remotely balanced when we played with a 400 AP army. The game was very close but very entertaining. I remember i managed to kill almost unscathed 2 of his crossbowmen then it took me the combined effort of 2 black paladin (RIP), 1 priest of saluel (RIP) , countless of morbid puppets, 1 necro and 1 ferocious archer (MVP of the match) to put him down...and even that it came to the point that if my archer would have failed the 50% hit chance i'm pretty sure i would have lost (yes he would have wiped my entire army by itself).

I also had 1 match vs the chimera, which even though i lost, i felt like i had a chance.

Fight a legend is always hard like hell!
They're legend for something!

But try again and again help to understand how to face them. At the beginning i lost always vs legend, first and second time but then things go better.

i do agree it is a learning experience, however some units like the worg are severely OP in a VIP elimination map. Even by doing a turtle defence he easily goes through. Being proactive and attacking their VIP, unless you are wolven, will be a terrible a tragedy as he will easily outspeed all your units. It just needs 1 turn attacking (not even offensive stance) to tear apart your VIP.

Haha funny Deep Blue, I am the player who play worg against him ^^
It's true, it s very difficult to kill the worg, with 400AP that become more interesting but the lucky about who will begin the new round is very important sometime O:-)

But be careful, 400AP wolfen= 2 rang lvl1+legendary or 1 predator+1 worg = game would be interesting

400AP undead= legendary+more caracter = i think that would be very difficult to defeated them

@Deep Blue if you want we can try this night cause i have a Golaem too O:-)

Last thing, ok, worg on vip is very hardcore, but if it's a golaem, i already try it in VIP game, Golaem is useless under 300AP

Haha funny Deep Blue, I am the player who play worg against him ^^
It's true, it s very difficult to kill the worg, with 400AP that become more interesting but the lucky about who will begin the new round is very important sometime O:-)

But be careful, 400AP wolfen= 2 rang lvl1+legendary or 1 predator+1 worg = game would be interesting

400AP undead= legendary+more caracter = i think that would be very difficult to defeated them

@Deep Blue if you want we can try this night cause i have a Golaem too O:-)

Last thing, ok, worg on vip is very hardcore, but if it's a golaem, i already try it in VIP game, Golaem is useless under 300AP

yeah i agree who starts first is HIGHLY advantaged if he is using the worg as the other player won't have time to slow him down. I would like to try tonight I played vs the golem only once and i was trying a wolven warband that was only melee based....so not much of a chance other than charging him head on. Personally i would like that legendary can be used only vs other legendaries or at least ONLY in a 400+ AP army. That way the person will have a higher probability to board some counters to it.

I think, the best thing to kill a legendary is to up his attak fail lvl. So, in some game, my worg was surrund by many low cost lion units. I could do anything,but..... i win 'cause 1 zone was empty. I went out by this way, take 10 damages, and engage juste 1 unit in the same round. I killed 3 units this round. Next round i killed the other with no problem.